Honey thread - from TBB and bits from old LHC

[Sokudo Ningyou]

I should add that after my third honey treatment, I soaked my hair in a lemon rinse. (I just eyeballed the lemon and the water, so I don't know how much it was.) The water had a pink tinge after I pulled my hair out and dumped it over the rest. I don't know if it means the henna actually might be coming out, and not just lightening, or it was my shampoo (which is a British brand, and has henna in it).

[Sokudo Ningyou]

Oh, and I almost forgot: has anyone tried mixing their honey with 3% hydrogen pyroxide instead of water?

[ktani]

Oh, and I almost forgot: has anyone tried mixing their honey with 3% hydrogen pyroxide instead of water?

I do not recommend it. The honey alone would not offer the damage protection you would need against conventional peroxide, which is 1000 stronger than the peroxide honey produces (comparing honey peroxide to 3% conventional peroxide). The protective constituents in honey protect the hair from damage from its peroxide but adding conventional peroxide to honey is not going to be as effective, in terms of damage protection, as pre-treating the hair. You can pre-treat the hair first, with coconut oil or coconut and argan oils, as you can with using peroxide on its own or other conventional lightening systems, which based on reports, minimizes hair damage.

Honey lightening peroxide has not been reported to cause hair damage, to date, no matter how often honey lightening is done or how long a recipe is left on the hair. As well, adding conventional peroxide to honey will not raise the pH of the solution enough (conventional peroxide is acidic) for honey to produce its optimal amount of peroxide, the way distilled water, with a pH of 7 can do, with the new dilution. Honey needs a pH of 6 to do that and most honeys on the market are less than that pH. Even if the honey used were a pH of 6 on dilution with water, conventional peroxide would lower it.

You can use lemon juice or conventional peroxide separately from honey lightening (lemon juice depletes peroxide and is not recommended to be used in a honey lightening recipe, for that reason). Lemon juice has been reported to redarken the hair colour when used on henna but can lighten it somewhat, based on reports. It is better I think, to mix it with conditioner, to help prevent dryness and damage.

[ktani]

Adding "extras" like thickeners or conventional peroxide to a honey lightening recipe is not recommended.

I researched thickeners. All of the the ones I looked into, from cornstarch to gums, to gelatin to flax seed, to cellulose, are not compatible with strong oxidizers like hydrogen peroxide and can deplete or negatively interact, with the peroxide levels of honey lightening recipes, IMO.

If conventional peroxide is added to a recipe, there would not be enough protection from hair damage, because the protective flavonoids in a honey lightening treatment need to be used as a pretreatment before conventional peroxide (which is much stronger than honey lightening peroxide) is used, and the peroxide applied over them (coconut or coconut and argan oils are the best choices for that) or they need to be formulated into the peroxide itself. In honey lightening, the flavonoids are already in the ingredients that produce natural peroxide.

Here is a thread about helping to protect hair from damage from conventional peroxide/bleach and hair colour. An explanation of how the elements found in honey lightening recipes protect hair from damage and the research that supports this, is also in the thread. There are reports on how coconut and oils (which contain protective chelators (the flavonoids are chelators), has been effective against hair damage, used as a pretreatment, with a higher level peroxide, conventional hair colour, applied over it.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...ad.php?t=10495

[ktani]

Choosing a honey for honey lightening

Here is the Successful Honeys List

If one cannot be found - try a dark coloured honey blend - raw or pasteurized - both have been reported to work equally well. Dark coloured blends were reported in research, to have higher peroxide levels than lighter coloured blends. A dark coloured, single source honey, does not necessarily have a high peroxide value - it depends on the plant source. Avoid using Anzer, buckwheat, chestnut, linden flower, locust flower, mint and thyme honeys. Also see Honey blends.

Jarrah honey, from Australia, is known for its very high peroxide value and is a good choice for honey lightening. Information on Jarrah honey and current suppliers can be found here.

Honey lightening boosters

Honey lightening boosters are; ground (powdered) cardamom, ground cinnamon, coconut oil and extra virgin olive oil (EVOO).
Each one has a peroxide value that can contribute to the peroxide value of a recipe.

EVOO has a higher peroxide value than coconut oil. Suggested recipe amounts for the oils are 1 tablespoon or less in total, per treatment.

Each spice has a higher peroxide value than either oil. Both spices can be sensitizers. Patch test before using. Suggested recipe amounts for the spices are 1 - 2 tablespoons in total, per treatment.

Cardamom has a higher peroxide value than ground cinnamon and has been reported to wash out of the hair easier than ground cinnamon. There is a cinnamon caution.

None of the boosters has a higher peroxide value than most honeys. (It depends on the honey though. Some honeys produce very little peroxide.)

[ktani]

Honey lightening can be done repeatedly with no worries about hair damage.

There have been no reports of hair damage from honey lightening in all 5 Honey threads to date, including this one, no matter how long a treatment is left on the hair or how often it is done. The research that supports this is in this thread and the Honey Article. There have been no reports of honey damaging hair on these boards, when accidental lightening has occurred.

Honey residue can leave the hair dry and hair ends stiff. This result is temporary and can easily resolved by shampooing. There have been 0 lasting effects reported when this is done, with 1 exception, where there was an unusual amount of residue that responded to shampoo but was still difficult to deal with.

Not all honeys leave a discernable residue that reqires shampooing out. Both raw and pasteurized honeys, cheap and expensive ones, can leave a residue. The amount of residue depends on the honey but there is no one type or brand of honey that has been singled out to leave more residue than others.

It is important to rinse the hair well but honey residue is best removed by shampoo, based on reports.

[ljkforu]

Oh, and I almost forgot: has anyone tried mixing their honey with 3% hydrogen pyroxide instead of water?

I just used good old fashioned fireweed honey and got great results. Peroxide was unnecessary.

[ktani]

I just used good old fashioned fireweed honey and got great results. Peroxide was unnecessary.

I added fireweed honey to the Successful Honeys List and I recommend it, based on your reports.

[ktani]

I am guilty of still smoking (this is a 1 post hijack of this thread. I do this on occasion, lol). I have been trying to eat better on a reduced budget and I do not take a multiviamin. I used to take 1000 mg of Vitamin C and a Vitamin B supplement but I have not been taking those either. And I bought a Vitamin D supplement I have not been taking.

I have been working extraordinarily hard this past month and it has paid off in my doing very well, having gone back to school. However every 2 weeks or so, I am extraordinarily tired too.

This article makes perfect sense and I am going to rethink what I do know but have not acted on. Eating better and cutting down to quit smoking. No more excuses. The article makes perfect sense to me.

"To Schwarcz, a food chemist who wrote 2007's An Apple a Day (Harper Perennial) to scientifically counter consumers' worst flights of food fancy, it's the $23.7-billion question.

"People take multivitamins as nutritional insurance," he says (Statistics Canada reported in 2004 that half of Canadian women take vitamins). "Most people are eating crap and thinking that they'll take a vitamin to equalize things. It's pointless. The problem with our diet is not a lack of vitamins. It's the fat, salt and sugar. Those issues are not addressed by taking more vitamins."

"The trouble is that we had a range of epidemiological studies showing that whole grains, fruits and vegetables were beneficial for a range of health issues, so it was assumed antioxidants and vitamins were the source and we isolated them in supplements. This is too simplistic," Schwarcz explains.

"There are studies that show you can't take one compound from a food and get the same result as eating it."

What's more, there are growing questions about whether most supplements do any good at all, says Ottawa Hospital urologist Dr. John Mahoney, who recently contributed to an international National Cancer Institute-funded study that attempted -- and failed -- to prove a link between reduced prostate cancer and selenium/ vitamin E supplements."

The article points out, that like using a successful herbal treatment on hair, isolating one component and using that only, does not have the same effect as using the whole plant.

I will also have to rethink the amount of sugar I have been eating, because although I am very thin right now, and despite wanting to believe otherwise in my weaker moments, a sweet is not food. A caramel sundae, although a "little bit of heaven" is not a meal, lol.

[Cassi]

ktani .... you are so right about taking better care of the body, but I find it so difficult to break myself of my bad eating habits, etc. I guess even a small improvement in how we treat ourselves can make a difference.