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Thread: Honey thread - from TBB and bits from old LHC

  1. #1091
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    Default Honey thread

    A Comprehensive Summary of the Newest Honey Lightening Recommendations.

    The following method I designed is based on my analyzing accredited research I read and the reports in this thread. Patch test any ingredient not previously used on the scalp or skin.

    1. The new dilution is 4 x the amount of water to honey, calculated by weight. It is now the recommended dilution to be used for honey lightening. The minimum amount of honey to be used is 10 grams. Here is a honey conversion link. 10 grams of honey would need 40 grams of distilled water. You can convert to ml, oz, tablespoons or cups. 2 tablespoons (1/8 cup or 1.5 oz) honey needs 6 oz distilled water or 3/4 cup US (1/2 cup Metric) or 12 tablespoons distilled water. Another way to use the new dilution is to just use tablespoons, 1 tablespoon of honey to 6 tablespoons distilled water, 2 to 12 etc. It works out to be the same as calculating by weight.

    According to reports posted in this thread, better results were achieved with the new dilution in 1 hour, than with repeated treatments using other dilutions. Different honeys produce different levels of peroxide. Here is the Successful Honeys List.
    If one cannot be found - try a dark coloured honey blend - raw or pasteurized - both have been reported to work equally well. Dark coloured blends were reported in research, to have higher peroxide levels than lighter coloured blends. A dark coloured, single source honey, does not necessarily have a high peroxide value - it depends on the plant source.

    2. Distilled water is recommended to be used for honey lightening in place of plain water. It is a better choice, for getting the best results from a honey lightening recipe because of its pH (7) and hydrogen peroxide can decompose in contact with certain minerals. More information on distilled water can be found here.

    3. The honey lightening boosters - ingredients that add extra peroxide to the recipes are; ground cardamom, ground cinnamon, coconut oil, extra virgin olive oil. Spices can be irritating - less is more with the new dilution - start with 1 tablespoon after patch testing - suggested maximum - 2 tablespoons. Information on ground cinnamon can be found here. Information on ground cardamom can be found here. Oils can be difficult to wash out of the hair - suggested amount - 1 tablespoon. None of the peroxide containing ingredients in the honey lightening recipes, including the honey and ground cinnamon, has been reported to add colour to the hair.

    4. Distilled water used with honey lightening should be room temperature only. Do not add spices to a recipe after you have applied the recipe to your hair - if any dry spice spills - you risk skin irritation - mix the spices into a recipe. The spices will blend better, mixed into water, when the honey is added first.

    5. No external heat should be used with honey lightening - no blow dryers, sunlight. None of the recipe ingredients should be heated at any time. Heat (except body heat) can destroy hydrogen peroxide. The peroxide can decompose into water and oxygen. It depends on the degree of heat and the amount of time that it is applied. Pasteurization does not destroy the enzyme in honey that produces peroxide. Store your honey, ground spices and oils away from heat, light and moisture, at room temperature, in a cupboard, preferably.

    6. No ingredients that contain Vitamin C, (except ground cardamom, which has the highest peroxide value for a spice and a low Vitamin C level), should be used in the recipes. Hydrogen peroxide oxidizes Vitamin C and is depleted in doing so. Some honeys naturally contain higher levels of Vitamin C. Avoid using Anzer, buckwheat, linden flower, locust flower, mint and thyme honeys. Most honeys contain very low levels. Here is a list of ingredients that contain Vitamin C.

    7. Jarrah honey, from Australia, is known for its very high peroxide value and is a good choice for honey lightening. Information on Jarrah honey and current suppliers can be found here.

    8. Conditioner is no longer recommended to be included in honey lightening recipes. Conditioner is too acidic for most honeys and the spices, (it can reduce the optimal pH needed for a honey to produce peroxide), can contain ingredients that interfere with honey lightening, and its water content (most conditioners are 70-90% water), if used as part of the new dilution, can effectively reduce the amount of water needed. The same applies to coconut cream and milk (they contain minerals, are acidic and contain Vitamin C, as well as not enough water). You can use conditioner only, to wash out a honey lightening treatment, instead of using shampoo or just rinse a treatment out. If there is honey residue, shampoo is recommended and has been reported to easily resolve the problem.

    9. The honey lightening recipes can be applied with a tint or blush brush for more control of placement.

    10. Mix the honey lightening recipe, at room temperature, and let the recipe sit for 1 hour, also at room temperature, to let the honey produce peroxide or use it right away and the honey will produce peroxide while on the hair. The hair should be freshly washed or rinsed first, if there is aloe gel on the hair (aloe gel contains Vitamin C), a Vitamin C containing leave-in treatment, heavy conditioner, a large amount of oil (a large amount of some types of oil will act as a barrier to the water), or styling products on the hair. If not, a honey lightening treatment can also be applied to wet or dry, unwashed hair. Apply the treatment with a tint, blush, basting brush, spray or squirt bottle, pin the hair up, cover the hair with plastic and keep the treatment on the hair for about 1 hour. The hair must be kept completely wet with the treatment both before it is covered and while the treatment is on the hair. Wearing a swim cap is recommended. Also recommened, is to use saran wrap under a lycra swim cap. It does not squeeze out too much water and the treatment does not drip as much with this method. An updated post of honey lightening innovations. Using a towel moist enough to keep hair wet has also been reported to work well and reduce drips.

    11. Honey lightening has not been reported to damage hair even after repeated use, over long periods of time. What has been reported occasionally is dry hair and crunchy ends. That is a honey residue result, and can easily be resolved by shampooing preferably, or a vinegar rinse. The effects are temporary when shampoo and/or vinegar are used, with shampoo being reported to work better than a vinegar rinse. Some honeys leave fewer residues than others. More on honey lightening, and research on the protective mechanisms in honey lightening recipe ingredients, can be found here.

    12. This is a Pictures Post of some honey lightening results, using the new dilution.
    Last edited by ktani; January 1st, 2011 at 12:20 PM. Reason: updated

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    Apologies for not posting this sooner, but I was totally tied up and couldn't take an 'after' photo until yesterday. I did run through the 2-hour cassia-honey treatment which firebird did. It does seem to have worked now that I'm comparing the photos:


    Before and After

    The before photo is taken right after my hair had come down from an updo, it's all out of shape and the after photo is taken right after my hair was dry after showering yesterday, so it's looking a bit 'unkept'.

    Lately I do have a reddish tinge coming back into my hair that used to be there when I was younger, but that seems to show up when my hair lightens up naturally. It's just that I've gotten both sunshine and honey lightening lately, so it's lightened up the brownish bits of my hair which then seem to show some strawberry blonde.
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  3. #1093
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    Default Honey thread

    morgwn

    Thank you so much for posting the pictures. No apologies are necessary.

    Yes, IMO your hair is definitely lighter! The blonde parts look less gold to me as well.

    Reddish tones in darker hair colours as they lighten are natural.

    If you continue to lighten - they will go brown then gold then blonde.

    This is the recipe firebird used and her reported results.
    http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...&postcount=489

    How is the condition of your hair?
    Last edited by ktani; June 4th, 2008 at 02:33 PM. Reason: added link and text

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    Quote Originally Posted by ktani View Post
    How is the condition of your hair?
    It's quite soft and shiny. Although it does still have its flyaways if I don't tame them a bit, but that's always been my hair. However, I have noticed a difference in the thickness which I'm most happy about. The individual hairs are also stronger, which is the opposite of how my hair usually gets when it lightens from the sun alone.
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    Default Honey thread

    Quote Originally Posted by morgwn View Post
    It's quite soft and shiny. Although it does still have its flyaways if I don't tame them a bit, but that's always been my hair. However, I have noticed a difference in the thickness which I'm most happy about. The individual hairs are also stronger, which is the opposite of how my hair usually gets when it lightens from the sun alone.

    morgwn

    That result has been reported before in different forms.

    Hair in better condition following honey lightening.
    http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...&postcount=427

    Thicker, stronger hair following honey lightening
    http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...&postcount=822

    and no damage to previously damaged hair following honey lightening.
    http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...&postcount=717

    http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...&postcount=719

    Thank you for reporting it now. I am keeping records.

    Now at least I understand why honey lightening has not been reported to damage hair to date in any Honey thread - the recipe ingredients all contain constituents which have been shown clinically to protect human cells from hydrogen peroxide damage.
    http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=1094

    IMO - this applies to hair too.
    Last edited by ktani; June 4th, 2008 at 03:27 PM. Reason: added link

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    Ktani, I certainly have never found my hair to be damaged by any sort of honey treatment, be it lightening or conditioning. For example, why would honey be included in hair repair recipes if it could be damaging?

    But just to clarify, I do think that it was the cassia and honey combined that made my hair stronger and have me notice no breakage over this past week. I did a cassia treatment without honey about a month ago and I felt the same effects but not to the same extent as when I just did the cassia with honey. Hence why I feel that the two combined is the only way that I'll go in the future.
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    Default Honey thread

    Quote Originally Posted by morgwn View Post
    Ktani, I certainly have never found my hair to be damaged by any sort of honey treatment, be it lightening or conditioning. For example, why would honey be included in hair repair recipes if it could be damaging?

    But just to clarify, I do think that it was the cassia and honey combined that made my hair stronger and have me notice no breakage over this past week. I did a cassia treatment without honey about a month ago and I felt the same effects but not to the same extent as when I just did the cassia with honey. Hence why I feel that the two combined is the only way that I'll go in the future.
    morgwn

    Thank you for the clarification.

    It is good to know that honey lightening with cassia leaves the hair in better condition than cassia alone - the honey needs to be well diluted though to avoid cassia possibly yielding colour - and no acid like orange juice mixed in with the cassia either, which has not been allowed to sit for dye release.

    I recommend premixing the cassia with water just before adding it to the honey lightening recipe.

    The results that I linked in my post to you did not all include cassia - in fact firebird is the only one who used cassia in her honey lightening recipe. And the link I gave for firebird was about honey lightening in general for her - not related to her honey lightening with cassia results.

    I am not suggesting that the stronger hair reported results are typical for honey lightening - I am just noting it.

    The no damage reported results are consistent.

    Honey only produces peroxide on dilution.

    As to recipes out there suggested for hair possibly damaging hair - or containing toxic ingredients or ingredients that do not work as specified - there are many of those that I have read - recipes containing large amounts of alcohol - real alcohol - herbs and plant products that are questionable due to their toxicity - plants that do not add colour as stated, etc.

    Putting lemon juice on the hair or lemon vodka and sitting out in the sun to get hi-lights are just 2 examples - let alone possibly getting skin burns or damage.
    Last edited by ktani; June 4th, 2008 at 05:04 PM. Reason: adjust text

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    Quote Originally Posted by ktani View Post
    morgwn

    Thank you for the clarification.

    It is good to know that honey lightening with cassia leaves the hair in better condition than cassia alone - the honey needs to be well diluted though to avoid cassia possibly yielding colour - and no acid like orange juice mixed in with the cassia either, which has not been allowed to sit for dye release.

    I recommend premixing the cassia with water just before adding it to the honey lightening recipe.
    I definitely did follow your and firebird's advice on the recipe with not using any sort of acidic liquid with the cassia; hence why I think I on;y had a bit of lightening from the honey and no added yellowish or reddish tones in my hair. I did premix the cassia with water first and then mixed it with the EVOO. I may try using the chamomile tea at some point, which you did post recently that you thought would still work with the cassia and honey if it was allowed to cool to RT first. However, I'm quite happy with the results as they now stand.
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    Default Honey thread

    morgwn

    I am glad that you are pleased with the the recipe as you used it.

    Using chamomile tea in the recipe was an idea I have reconsidered as I am unsure if even Roman chamomile tea might add some colour to the hair.

    In a report where a very strong chamomile tea was used with a honey lightening recipe, a gold tone was added to the hair - the type of chamomile was unspecified. From my own experience with German chamomile, chamomile tea can add a gold colour to hair- for me though, it depended on the strength of the tea used.

    The idea was that chamomile tea used in a honey lightening recipe with spice would act to counter irritation.

    However, with 4 parts water to 1 part honey, less spice can be used and has been reported to yield even better results than more spice used with another dilution.

    For blondes, lighter hair colours and hair colours where the possibility of added colour is not wanted, I think that plain water is the way to go rather than risking added colour by using a herbal tea.
    Last edited by ktani; June 5th, 2008 at 08:31 AM. Reason: clarification

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    morgwn, I'm so glad you got good results from the mixture!

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