The Archives: The Merged NW/SO/WO Thread

[malt-o-meal]

I hope it works for you lillimer! I will say that my skin does tolerate moisturizers/sunscreens now that my skin has desensitized over the years, but I still don't use those products. Also, the key is not to use too much jojoba oil, just 1-2 small drops rubbed into your hands at a time so there's a very fine layer covering your fingers, and then gently rub onto face. I tried to get my siblings to use jojoba oil and they complained it was too greasy, which tells me that they ignored my advice that less is more
also, I personally never experienced much benefit for my hair from jojoba oil. I just recently got coconut oil and it seems to work better. I once put too much jojoba oil in my hair b/c it didn't seem to be helping, and then it ended up weird and crunchy.

[malt-o-meal]

so I've actually been using distilled water to wash my face the past few days. I'm gonna see how I like that over the next week and then I might try NW.

I ended up WOing my hair 2 nights ago because I was putting on a baby shower the next day and my hair looked too greasy, but it was with reluctance because I'd just started experiencing quite a revelation with my hair. my hair was SOFT. down to the tips too. I couldn't stop touching it and I kept thinking to myself, THIS is what my hair's meant to feel like.... silky and soft. ever since puberty my hair has been on the coarse side. I thought soft hair was something other people had, not me. wow. if coming out of the transition stage means having hair that soft without the greasy look... can I hope for such happiness? not just the softness, but my hair looked softer too and "calm". my hair never looked "calm" before because it was too coarse and thick and dry and water made it go crazy.

anyway after WOing it 2 nights ago, it was crazy waxy. I tried to BBB it quite a bit, which helped, but still some waxiness.. should be better after I BBB more. It makes me really not want to rinse my hair with water, at least not during this tough transition phase, b/c I hate waxiness. will see how long I can go NW this time.....

[malt-o-meal]

I should clarify that this softness revelation is quite big for me b/c I've been experiencing for at least a year now with BS/ACV, then COing, then stretching out washes, then WOing, and so I've definitely gone through stretches of having overly oil-saturated hair, but never experienced softness like this. Also, my hair suddenly felt so LIGHT. and putting it up in a ponytail, my hair looked relaxed and calm like normal people's hair, not stiff and overly horse-tail looking (b/c my hair is straight and VERY thick). the lightness was weird and cool. then right after WOing it, it was heavy again even after it had dried I'm not sure why, I used a vinegar wash and I did a final distilled water rinse, so I guess the sebum got spread out more? when I BBB it automatically covers the bristles in a powdery white substance, which I believe is sebum. I just don't get why sebum turns waxy only AFTER rinsing hair or taking a shower? can anybody explain this to me because I've never found the answer to this in all the forums I've read on here!

[malt-o-meal]

sorry not purposely multi-posting, but for anyone wondering why my hair suddenly got soft, I'm wondering too. I've been WOing for maybe 2 months now? might be a little less. before that, I was stretching out washes to every 3-5 days (that's a lot for my oily scalp) with diluted shampoo, that was for at least a couple months. most recently I'd stretched out my WO rinses to 4-6 days, and the past week I washed my hair with distilled water in the kitchen sink (and my hair still got very waxy after that, which ruled out hard water being the culprit for waxiness). so, it might be the distilled water causing the soft hair (in combination with my scalp oils)..... or it might just be that my scalp oils are really getting to nourish my hair more fully now. anyway as I said, I'm gonna try to go NW for longer now and after I get rid of the current waxiness (from WO 2 nights ago) will see how soft my hair gets.

[Greenfire]

Okay, I looked at photos.... I looked at my photos.... Arrghhh.


Bedhead, what other techniques did you try before doing this? I have to say that there were two pictures in your album where your hair looked nice, one around 7 weeks and one right after your clarifying wash. I'm not sure if this is really doing for you what you are hoping? Yes, I get the healing thing, I do, but after seeing how some hair looked in here, I'm really not convinced it's worth it. Are you happy with it? I really don't want to hurt your feelings, but your hair looked okay in your signature until I saw how it looked in a couple other photos where it looked great and now I'm thinking it looks a little lank. Which is how I've been feeling about mine.

Now mine is weird. Super weird, I really wish I could upload pictures to my photo album but for some reason it's not working, so I'm putting them up for you here, but will put them up there later.

This is my hair on normal cleaning with Kaaral S&C, it's an Italian SLS free product:



You can see my hair is fairly air dried, and you can see my roots just starting to grow, and the section just below that where the demi permanent washed out over my virgin hair and is now orangish, and below that where the hair had been lightened. These pictures are just over a month old.

Here is my hair just after being no 'poo for a month, just after a chamomile rinse, and air drying:


You can see just how different my hair is, it's a lot curlier than I've ever had it before, and it has a lot of separation, the strands no longer look silky. It feels crunchier and waxy, especially in the back. It also looks a lot shorter. This is from a week ago.

This is today, after doing my best to smp:



You can see that it appears lank, and in the last photo you can compare the roots and how the hair lies in the closeup photo from the first. I can tell you that in trying to spread the sebum through the hair, it actually felt a little better today than it has in a few weeks. A little less waxy, and I think that's because I did the preening upside down, where I had just been doing it vertical before. It does make a difference.

To be honest though, it looks and feels awful. I also had a lot of breakage while I was going through the hair so thoroughly, and again, am not sure it can take the preening on a daily basis like that.

I really don't think it's gonna give me the kinds of results I want, and while the curliness of water only hair is definitely something awesome for me, I am still wondering if that is to be attributed more to the damage done to my hair than to any awesomeness of the sebum itself. I'd rather have the smoother beachy waves and less of the roughness.

I really wish I had a hair doctor... But again, are you really getting the results you hoped for?

I think I'll hang out in here with you guys while I try to find my thing cause I like you, but am so not convinced from what I'm seeing in here. I don't know what to do with my hair at this point except let it grow and keep looking.

[Bedhead]

Malt-o-meal, th softness is something that will stay. I'm not sure why exactly, the only thing I can think of is the hair doesn't stiffen from being stripped, and has time, like it's been on vacation long enough, to relax. Part of WO's transition is waxiness. For some reason it's the water mixed with sebum when the scalp is trying one last really hard time - there's a different quality to it, so the mixture results in a firmer sebum - because I didn't experience any waxiness on NW/SO except at 7 weeks, if I recall correctly, but it was more, what I called and got laughed at at the time "gritty", but I don't know what else to call it.

Greenfire, LOL! No you didn't hurt my feelings. As you experienced, I've been unable to upload pictures to the album since April (12 weeks of my transition), so not quite fully transitioned. My main goal in the album was to show how the sebum calmed throughout the transition period. There are no photos there of my hair after I transitioned. My hair is also auburn, which means the slightest change in lighting can have a great effect in a photo. But since you read the thread, you would have read that I had started braiding my hair or bunning it at night, around the time it started to, as you put it, "look lank". I wasn't happy with it either, so I stopped and now leave my hair down at night, and my hair looks like it does in my siggy, although less windblown, since that was taken after I transitoned at around 20weeks (?). I've continued taking pictures here and there, so when the servers are fixed, I'll get them up.

You asked what I've tried before.... Before this, I used regular shampoo and conditioner, of course, then I tried a German SLS free organic shampoo and conditioner, then a shampoo bar, then a Canadian SLS free shampoo and conditioner then WO and finally NW/SO. This was over a period of four and a half years (I believe in giving things a chance to work before I move on).

NW/SO is not for everyone. The main problem people have with it is the mental aspect and getting through the transition. At the stage you're at, it's going to look like crap, all lanky and sebumy, and piecy. Maybe try being more gentle when you're doing your preening? Your hair is dammaged. The damaged areas need you to slow down and take your time.

ETA: I also wanted to add, that your hair is never going to look like it does when washed with shampoo while practicing NW/SO. The texture will be very different. And this is why there's such a strong mental adjustment. As Frizzinator said, you need to adjust your idea of what clean, healthy hair looks and feels like. So if you're going into this hoping for that sleek stripped hair society calls "clean", then you're going to find yourself very dissappointed. As well, during the transition phase, while you're waiting to not having to worry about people seeing your sebum, it can feel like a long, long, wait.

[Greenfire]

One thing I'm confused about though is that the sls free shampoos are supposed to not wash out all the sebum in the hair, thus keeping it healthier. I generally never used a conditioner when I washed before, maybe remembering to do it once ever 4 or 5 washes. My hair was fine, similar to what my roots feel like now, but not so hunky in the back. I never had a huge transition to no 'poo when I started, but really just wondered if the sebum I have is hung up at the badly damaged parts and just won't smooth down over at all, and that's really the biggest issue.

You can really see how it's creating a large hair cleavage at the back of my head, and because I sleep on my back, that's the most damaged part of my hair, and it just seems like it's hanging up there. I'm really tempted to wash it out and see where my hair's at using a dilute amount of shampoo, and then just migrating back and forth between the two methods at less frequency. My hair was fine on no poo and water only for the first week and a half, maybe if I just start out there but preen a little... (yes, just a very little) I can limit what damage I'll do by anything.

I do know that baking soda in any dilution is too much for my hair, so the pH thing, and even coarseness are an issue. I won't be using any saltwater solutions to make curls for a while either, for the same reason. I know that I can go a long time without washing if I keep it clean in other ways, so like I said, I'll hang around in here a bit with you guys. Glad you're happy with your hair, I wish I could see it and touch it.

[Bopoluchi]

hi greenfire, regarding wearing hair out, i've been NW/SO for 5 months (apart from my recent dabbling with the oil-rinse method in an attempt to get rid of the neelibhrangadi oil i'd smothered on my hair) and used to wear my hair out most of the time after 2 months of NW/SO (in hindsight, wearing my hair out wasn't great for my hair as i ended up with a lot of splits) and i'd get compliments on my hair, even from my mum who delights in making snarky compliments about my appearance. i'm a performing artist and i've done a couple of gigs with my hair out too. i think my hair looks pretty good both loose and in updos, tho unfortunately i have no photographic evidence. my hair looks ordinary at the mo cos there's still a bit of residue greasiness in my lengths from my oiling stint.

i'm very happy with NW/SO. i think my hair looks good, the minimalism and 'crunchy goodyness' appeals to me, i reckon its healthy for my hair and because i only smp twice a week its very good for time. my only concern about this routine for me is dryness, as i don't produce much sebum. i don't really know much about hair, but it seems to me that protection against damage and adequate moisture are key to my hair health. i think i'v got the protection against damage thing down, but i'm still finding a way to moisturise my hair without compromising on appearance (its when i add oil to my hair that it looks greasy). i'm going to look into sealing the ends and spraying the lengths with rosewater, see if that works.

Another concern i've had with this regime is cleaning the hair from dust and air pollution, however as bedhead pointed out there are other ways of cleaning the hair which dont involve water (smp, brush and comb).

So really, apart from my concern about dryness (and i'm sure i'll find the solution to this eventually) NW/SO is where i'll be for a long time. i may decide to rinse my hair occasionally, as i miss getting proper oil massages from when i was following an Indian hair care regime. from my recent oil rinse, i haven't noticed any 'resetting' in terms of sebum production (still low) or stripping the lengths of oil (still oily), but i did notice frizziness, the lack of which is a benefit of going NW/SO i'd forgotten about.

my current regime is to keep my hair in a french braid for a couple of days at a time, wearing it in a braided updo for teh day and at night i'll wrap a silk scarf round the braid when i sleep. i undo the braid after a couple of days, gently finger detangle, smp, massage a drop of oil into my scalp and a bit more into my nape (to help prevent tangling there), and braid it again, maybe after airing it loose for a bit. so i only smp twice a week when i rebraid my hair, and occasionally (maybe every one or two weeks) i'll seal my ends by soaking in water for a minute and applying oil while still slightly damp. my lengths still have a slight film of oil so i'm not doing anything to them at the moment, but i'll start spraying them with rosewater or something later. that's it, no combs or brushes, minimal handling, minimal time spent on hair, awesome. every day i massage my scalp (moving the skin of my scalp around with my fingers, if that makes sense) when i remember to cos its meant to be good for scalp and hair growth.

[Bedhead]

Greenfire, the cards are in your hands. It's up to you what you do. I know this is working for me right now, but it can be a mental and, for some, emotional challenge to get through the transition period. Will I ever rinse again? Well, I had an unplanned walk in the rain yesterday, so I think that counts as a yes. I'm not anti-water, I'm more of a do I really need it in the way and method our society is promoting? The answer for me is no. It's not about being granola, it's about doing things that are healthy for my body and looking beyond the marketing (granola can be marketing hype too). If it's something they're trying to sell me, great, if not, I'm not going to be a sheep and just do it anyway because that's what everyone else is doing. My health comes first.

As for your hair cleavage, I got that on WO, and for a while doing NW/SO, but it's gone now.


********************************

I wanted to say, my face looks fabulous! I admit, I have touched it, but not half as much as I used to, and not in the way I used to, mostly the back of my hand. In touching it, I have felt a crust, which seems to rub off easily, but I don't go further than feeling it.

I'm feeling something happening I've felt before with a hydrating cream I used to use that was discontinued. It's like there's a tightening around the inner aspects of my cheeks where most people have larger pores, a lifting, and a puffiness that's not a bad puffiness. Old acne that was taking its sweet time in healing have simply flaked off.

I guess what I'm saying is my skin is hydrated and healthy looking. And despite eating like crap this weekend with my guests, I have no acne. I am hoping this crust will eventually fall away, as I wouldn't want anyone else to touch it at this point, but then I'm still on my first week, and I know some of you have said it will.

My eyes are slowly adjusting, morning puffiness is not being retained as it would have in the past, which means my narcolepsy is fine.

[proo]

Hey all-
Update on caveman facial routine: it's better & better -
Smoother tone, still somewhat crusty, but as Bedhead reports, not notable unless touched.
Gave myself a gentle shiatsu style facial massage lastnight which felt great,
Produced some flakiness which is gone today.
Realized I was preening my face.

Planning a distilled water rinse and steam:
After rinsing/combing sebum down to ends I'll squeeze out excess
Then wrap in Saran and cover with a hat
Steaming with water instead of conditioner.