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Thread: ...Anybody have any good recipes for fine hair?

  1. #1

    Default ...Anybody have any good recipes for fine hair?

    I'm a guy with long hair (around 20 inches and still trying to grow further) who wasn't really taught about the do's and don'ts of having long hair. I've learned some things in the past few years, but one I still struggle with is what shampoo and conditioner to use.

    I went to a salon recently (which I never did before) to ask them what my 'hair type' was. They said mine is called 'fine,' and they recommended products that say 'thickening' on the label. Coincidentally, the stuff I was using (a $6 'sulfate-free' brand called Renpure) had 'thickening' on the bottle, but they never heard of Renpure so couldn't comment on its quality. They of course recommended things that they sell or could order for me, but the stuff was $40 per bottle. I told them I was interested in homemade stuff, because I've heard about all the harmful sulfates and waxes in commercial products, and asked them if they'd ever tried making homemade shampoo and conditioner. But, none of them had. They just said 'if you want quality, you really need salon-grade products.' But any business will tell you that you need their product; I didn't mind.

    I have made things like homemade body wash in the past, with ingredients like:
    - Castile soap
    - Organic honey
    - Cocunut oil
    - Olive oil
    - Essential oils
    - Vitimin E

    And that stuff was excellent. Lasted what seemed like a whole year and saved me money in the long-run.

    So I've tried looking up things like 'homemade shampoo for fine hair' (conditioner seeming harder to find) to find something that could do as the body wash did; last a long time and save money. But I couldn't quite figure out what options were best for a guy like me; what had the benefits of being good for fine hair and a bang for the buck. Not making my scalp itch would be nice too... Freakin' Renpure...

    If anyone here could help me in any way, I'd be grateful. I'm just late to the party on hair stuff, but I'd like to start doing things the right way and save money while doing it :{D

    (Btw: The salon said me getting trims every 10-13 weeks or so would help my hair grow faster, but my barber says trimming has nothing to do with growth; it's about removing split ends so you don't get frizzies. My barber and I suspect the salon just wants me to spend money there on trims, but who has the facts right here? I want hair down to my butt, but dammit I need the truth! xD )

    Other facts that may be useful to know for nitty-gritty hair stuff:
    - I'm in my 20s with brown hair
    - Not balding
    - Take one biotin tablet per day
    - Wear a hat for my job, which is a hot kitchen (hair put in ponytail and tucked under hat)
    - Go through a lot of stress, finding gray hairs now and then because of it
    - Have a balanced diet and drink water often
    - Only brush once a day, usually after hair dries after a shower
    - Put hair in a cotton t-shirt as a towel wrap for drying while I shave, air dry rest of the way after
    - Use a scalpmaster shampoo brush
    - Only put conditioner on hair ends, not scalp
    - Wear a silk hair cap to bed
    - Have tried do-it-yourself oil treatments and deep conditioning but it's been a while
    - Don't get much sun because I have to wear the hat
    - Try not to play with my hair, tempting as it is
    - Have a vibrating scalp stimulator but got lazy and haven't used it in a while :]

  2. #2
    Member pailin's Avatar
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    Default Re: ...Anybody have any good recipes for fine hair?

    Quote Originally Posted by That Purple Guy View Post
    I'm a guy with long hair (around 20 inches and still trying to grow further) who wasn't really taught about the do's and don'ts of having long hair. I've learned some things in the past few years, but one I still struggle with is what shampoo and conditioner to use.

    I went to a salon recently (which I never did before) to ask them what my 'hair type' was. They said mine is called 'fine,' and they recommended products that say 'thickening' on the label. Coincidentally, the stuff I was using (a $6 'sulfate-free' brand called Renpure) had 'thickening' on the bottle, but they never heard of Renpure so couldn't comment on its quality. They of course recommended things that they sell or could order for me, but the stuff was $40 per bottle. I told them I was interested in homemade stuff, because I've heard about all the harmful sulfates and waxes in commercial products, and asked them if they'd ever tried making homemade shampoo and conditioner. But, none of them had. They just said 'if you want quality, you really need salon-grade products.' But any business will tell you that you need their product; I didn't mind.

    I have made things like homemade body wash in the past, with ingredients like:
    - Castile soap
    - Organic honey
    - Cocunut oil
    - Olive oil
    - Essential oils
    - Vitimin E

    And that stuff was excellent. Lasted what seemed like a whole year and saved me money in the long-run.

    So I've tried looking up things like 'homemade shampoo for fine hair' (conditioner seeming harder to find) to find something that could do as the body wash did; last a long time and save money. But I couldn't quite figure out what options were best for a guy like me; what had the benefits of being good for fine hair and a bang for the buck. Not making my scalp itch would be nice too... Freakin' Renpure...

    If anyone here could help me in any way, I'd be grateful. I'm just late to the party on hair stuff, but I'd like to start doing things the right way and save money while doing it :{D

    (Btw: The salon said me getting trims every 10-13 weeks or so would help my hair grow faster, but my barber says trimming has nothing to do with growth; it's about removing split ends so you don't get frizzies. My barber and I suspect the salon just wants me to spend money there on trims, but who has the facts right here? I want hair down to my butt, but dammit I need the truth! xD )

    Other facts that may be useful to know for nitty-gritty hair stuff:
    - I'm in my 20s with brown hair
    - Not balding
    - Take one biotin tablet per day
    - Wear a hat for my job, which is a hot kitchen (hair put in ponytail and tucked under hat)
    - Go through a lot of stress, finding gray hairs now and then because of it
    - Have a balanced diet and drink water often
    - Only brush once a day, usually after hair dries after a shower
    - Put hair in a cotton t-shirt as a towel wrap for drying while I shave, air dry rest of the way after
    - Use a scalpmaster shampoo brush
    - Only put conditioner on hair ends, not scalp
    - Wear a silk hair cap to bed
    - Have tried do-it-yourself oil treatments and deep conditioning but it's been a while
    - Don't get much sun because I have to wear the hat
    - Try not to play with my hair, tempting as it is
    - Have a vibrating scalp stimulator but got lazy and haven't used it in a while :]
    Your barber's right, no need to trim regularly. Some of us have gone years between trims.... If you're serious about growing it out, the first rule is to stop cutting. Trims are really only necessary to get rid of damage/split ends.
    You're doing a lot of things right already.
    I'm not exactly a promoter of natural haircare; I'm happy to use commercial products, although I've experimented with shampoo bars (I make my own soap due to skin problems). If you really want to go for all natural, you might try shampoo bars- I mean the real soap kind (some of them are sls). Some people like them for fine, flat hair because they tend to give you more texture. But you will probably need an acidic rinse (unless you have veeery soft water). Many people will tell you to use apple cider vinegar, but I'm not convinced it's any better than plain white vinegar, and it costs more (and I dislike the smell). My preference is citric acid- no smell at all). If you use liquid castile soap (ie Dr. Bronner's), you should also use an acidic rinse. But it's usually not recommended around this board; it can be pretty hard on your hair.
    Pay attention to how your hair behaves with whatever you try- if it works, it doesn't matter what a salon or anyone else says.

    ETA There's no need for biotin, by the way. Deficiencies are unusual, and it is possible to have toxicity from high doses.
    Also, cheap products are great. In general, your barber sounds pretty sensible.
    Last edited by pailin; May 31st, 2017 at 05:13 AM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: ...Anybody have any good recipes for fine hair?

    Quote Originally Posted by pailin View Post
    Your barber's right, no need to trim regularly. Some of us have gone years between trims.... If you're serious about growing it out, the first rule is to stop cutting. Trims are really only necessary to get rid of damage/split ends.
    You're doing a lot of things right already.
    I'm not exactly a promoter of natural haircare; I'm happy to use commercial products, although I've experimented with shampoo bars (I make my own soap due to skin problems). If you really want to go for all natural, you might try shampoo bars- I mean the real soap kind (some of them are sls). Some people like them for fine, flat hair because they tend to give you more texture. But you will probably need an acidic rinse (unless you have veeery soft water). Many people will tell you to use apple cider vinegar, but I'm not convinced it's any better than plain white vinegar, and it costs more (and I dislike the smell). My preference is citric acid- no smell at all). If you use liquid castile soap (ie Dr. Bronner's), you should also use an acidic rinse. But it's usually not recommended around this board; it can be pretty hard on your hair.
    Pay attention to how your hair behaves with whatever you try- if it works, it doesn't matter what a salon or anyone else says.

    ETA There's no need for biotin, by the way. Deficiencies are unusual, and it is possible to have toxicity from high doses.
    Also, cheap products are great. In general, your barber sounds pretty sensible.
    Is there a particular brand of natural shampoo bars you recommend? Do I need to use an acidic rinse every time I use the shampoo bar? Do conditioner bars exist? owo

    Haha, yeah my barber is a pretty no-nonsense kind of guy. Great to chat with.

    Interesting to talk to someone who doesn't mind commercial stuff. I mean I've used the stuff all my life, but only in recent years did I figure 'Maybe I'll try natural options,' probably around the time I decided 'Maybe I'll start eating healthier.' Is using cheapo stuff like Renpure instead of natural options or $40 products really hurting one's hair in the long run--in most cases? I know it's different for everyone.

    Sorry for all the questions. I have a tendency to overthink and ask until I feel I know enough. And I know very little about this, gwaha :{D

  4. #4
    Mad Scientist mira-chan's Avatar
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    Default Re: ...Anybody have any good recipes for fine hair?

    Quote Originally Posted by That Purple Guy View Post
    Is there a particular brand of natural shampoo bars you recommend? Do I need to use an acidic rinse every time I use the shampoo bar? Do conditioner bars exist? owo

    Haha, yeah my barber is a pretty no-nonsense kind of guy. Great to chat with.

    Interesting to talk to someone who doesn't mind commercial stuff. I mean I've used the stuff all my life, but only in recent years did I figure 'Maybe I'll try natural options,' probably around the time I decided 'Maybe I'll start eating healthier.' Is using cheapo stuff like Renpure instead of natural options or $40 products really hurting one's hair in the long run--in most cases? I know it's different for everyone.

    Sorry for all the questions. I have a tendency to overthink and ask until I feel I know enough. And I know very little about this, gwaha :{D
    Yes you should do an acidic rinse after the shampoo bar. Soap, such as shampoo bars have basic pH, so above 7. Your scalp and hair need an acidic pH of about 5.7. The acidic rinse helps balance that. If you don't do an acidic rinse your hair will feel rougher after a while and your scalp may get very irritated after several washes without an acidic rinse.

    There are bars that have extra oils in them for more conditioning but I haven't heard of a conditioning bar. Usually oiling the hair after wash with a drop or two of oil was the traditional thing used instead of conditioners (and before conditioners existed!).

    An extra benefit of the acidic rinse is that if you have hard water it will prevent the mineral buildup on your hair as well.

    As for standard shampoo, if it hasn't caused problems over years of use, you can keep using it. If it works, it works. Everyone is different so something that doesn't work for others may work just fine for you and vice versa.

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    Member lapushka's Avatar
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    Default Re: ...Anybody have any good recipes for fine hair?

    I'm happy to use commercial products as well. The "volumizing" shampoos are the ones to look for... if you want volume. Pantene does a great one, so does Shea Moisture (if you want sulfate-free products). You'd have to look around a bit - I'm sure you can do that just fine.

    Can't help you with recipes, sorry. If you are using soaps and Dr. Bronners in your shampoos, then that might even be harsher than regular shampoos.
    Lady Senua of the Golden Mask in the Order of the Long Haired Knights
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    Member pailin's Avatar
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    Default Re: ...Anybody have any good recipes for fine hair?

    It's up to you, of course, but you can try 'natural' options or stick with commercial. I've never tried Renpur, but you might even find something cheaper you like.
    Your hair texture will make a difference in what works for you - the salon did get it right that 'volumizing' shampoos are often good for fine hair. And whether you hair is straight, wavy, or curly can also make a difference. But you'll also want to pay attention to your scalp- some people are pretty dry, and others very oily. So that may also affect your shampoo preferences.
    You mentioned 'not make your scalp itch' - is this an issue for you? If so, you may need a different shampoo. Maybe the occasional dandruff shampoo, or you may find sls-free shampoo isn't for you. For me, I've learned to avoid all the creamy ('moisturizing') shampoos.

    ETA I don't have any personal experience with shampoo bar brands, because I made my own. But there's an enormous thread around here if you do a search, and I know people mentioned specific brands.

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    Default Re: ...Anybody have any good recipes for fine hair?

    If you're looking for commercial and cheap, I've had good luck with the Tea Tree Tingle line from Trader Jo's. Not quite moisturizing enough for my curly hair, but a good brand that certainly didn't build up (my hair's really prone to being dry though, so that's not a condemnation of the line). I tried Renpure, and it didn't work for me at all. I know a lot of people also like suav naturals. I can't use them but they're very popular.

    Stylists will almost always tell you you need to trim a lot. You don't need to listen, unless your ends have gotten so bad that they're breaking off. But you'll know if that's happening--otherwise you can avoid trims.

    Also, I might have missed it, but what do you use to put your hair in the pony for work? Normal hair ties can wreck havoc on your hair, so that might be another area where you could make a change if you're not already using something gentle.
    "All things strive."
    Currently BSL, shooting for waist by 2017.

  8. #8

    Default Re: ...Anybody have any good recipes for fine hair?

    @mira-chan: Ah, okay. So I'd use the shampoo bar on the scalp, then rinse out with acidic rinse? Or rinse out with water, then apply acidic? Do I apply the acidic rinse to the scalp only, or both the scalp and the rest of the hair?

    I gotcha. So for conditioning with oil, do the same rules apply--about only using it on the hair ends? Or does it not matter if you use oil on the scalp as well in the process? Also, do you recommend a certain type of oil for conditioning fine hair? owo


    @lapushka: Good to see more people cool with commercial. A lot of sites make commercial products seem like 'The bane of all hair that will give you cancer one day! Bewaaarrre!' No worries, I already know Dr. Bronners is overkill on hair (if not diluted). I only made homemade body wash using Dr. Bronners one time. It lasted a long time, which I really liked :]

    I don't suppose anyone here has made shampoo and conditioner with Dr. Bronners? Haha, if so I could make some of my own at the same time I make my next batch of body wash :{D


    @pailin: Something even cheaper? Interesting... owo

    Yeah, I sometimes get an itchy scalp and I wonder if it's my shampoo! The worst is when I get an itch while wearing my hat. If I take it off, I'd have to re-put up my hair.

    To the experts in the room, I'll list all of the ingredients of Renpure's shampoo and conditioner. At least for the one I'm currently using, which is 'Thickening: Biotin and Collagen'

    Maybe you can spot a problematic ingredient that I don't know about, and maybe can avoid if I go for a new commercial product:

    Shampoo:
    -Purified Water
    - Cocamidopropyl Betaine (Coconut Oil*)
    - Sodium C14-16 Olefin Sulfonate,
    - PEG-4 Rapeseedamide (Rapeseed Oil*)
    - Glycerin (Coconut Oil*)
    - Biotin
    - Hydrolyzed Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride (Guar Bean*)
    - Theobroma Cacao (Cocoa*) Extract
    - Hydrolyzed Pea Protein
    - Aesculus Hippocastanum (Horse Chestnut*) Seed Extract
    - PEG-7 Dimethicone, Laureth-7 (Coconut Oil*)
    - Polysorbate 20 (Coconut Oil & Sugar*)
    - Glycol Distearate (Palm Oil*)
    - Laureth-4 (Coconut Oil*)
    - Citric Acid (Fruit Acid*)
    - Sodium Chloride
    - Methychloroisothiazolinone
    - Methylisothiazolinone
    - Fragrance
    (*Derived Source)

    Conditioner:
    - Purified Water
    - Cetyl Alcohol (Palm Oil*)
    - Glyceryl Stearate (Palm Oil*)
    - Glycerin (Coconut Oil*)
    - Behentrimonium Chloride (Rapeseed Oil*)
    - Cocos Nucifera (Coconut*) Oil
    - Biotin
    - Hydrolyzed Collagen
    - Theobroma Cacao (Cocoa*) Extract
    - Hydrolyzed Pea Protein
    - Aesculus Hippocastanum (Horse Chestnut*) Seed Extract
    - Cetrimonium Chloride (Palm Oil*)
    - Guar Hydroxypropultrimonium Chloride (Guar Bean*)
    - Polyquaternium-10
    - PEG-7 Dimethicone
    - Laureth-7 (Coconut Oil*)
    - Polysorbate 20 (Coconut Oil & Corn Syrup*)
    - Diazolidinyl Urea
    - Iodopropynyl Butylcarbamate
    - Fragrance
    (*Derived Source)

    Geez, half of the names of these things could be technobabble for some sci-fi movie. Writers could just slip those in as minerals or planets and no-one would notice, haha. I especially like the final ingredients of those two. After all those giant, complicated words, the last one just says 'Fragrance.' xD

    Thanks, I'll have to check that thread out. Learn me some stuff about shampoo bars~

    By the way folks, sorry for my towers of text. But I'd like to reply to all of you :{3


    Katia_k: I don't have curly hair, but maybe they have something I might like. Thanks :]

    Ah, you didn't miss it--I actually forgot to mention it! Haha, and here I thought I was being super-thorough about my hair stuff. No worries, the hair bands I use are gentle elastic ties.



    Another question for everyone: I have a coworker who uses a leave-in product called 'It's a 10.' It makes her hair really shiny, which made me think 'I've never had shiny-shiny hair before, but is that even healthy?' I know a lot of natural sites will tell you 'less is more' when it comes to products, since build-up of too many products is harmful. What do you think about products like that, and what 'shine' actually means from a hair health standpoint? owo

  9. #9
    Member Corvana's Avatar
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    Default Re: ...Anybody have any good recipes for fine hair?

    I use some Renpure products, but the only ones I've tried are the coconut cream moisturizing conditioner and their pomegranate cleansing conditioner. I haven't bothered with their shampoos, but that's just because I like the Tresemme moisturizing something something... And since my scalp is rather sensitive to shampoos, I prefer sticking with what I know doesn't bother me. Unlike pailin, I need the moisturizing kind! They always seem to treat my poor scalp more gently. I haven't used the cleansing conditioner in a bit, but I am currently using the coconut cream conditioner. I think that the different types could cause different problems, but frankly it's impossible to know without just trying every single one!

    It's really a "find what works for you" sort of deal! I know when my hair is longer, I'll need to wash it twice a week instead of once a week. Unless I curl it, because then more air can make its way to my roots and I get less greasy. And I prefer moisturizing shampoos, because others dry my scalp too much which makes me itchy. I also like to condition for like 2 minutes, and then rinse it out and condition again (this time detangling) for like 5 minutes or more (depends how into singing I got LOL). Then when I get out I use like a drop of regular conditioner on very damp hair (not dripping, but still quite wet) as a leave in, and once it's all dry I use like 4 drops of beard oil all over my ends. It smells like coffee and has the dual effect of being super great for my hair (lots of good oils for hair in it) and of masking the coconut smell of the conditioner that makes me nauseous (I'm very sensitive to scents haha). My hair ends up smelling like a latte!!

    There's really nothing wrong with commercial products, if it works for you. My shampoo is just stripping enough that I basically never have build up of any other products. Idk, it's what I like and my hair likes it well enough, so I don't bother changing it.

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    Mad Scientist mira-chan's Avatar
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    Default Re: ...Anybody have any good recipes for fine hair?

    Quote Originally Posted by That Purple Guy View Post
    @mira-chan: Ah, okay. So I'd use the shampoo bar on the scalp, then rinse out with acidic rinse? Or rinse out with water, then apply acidic? Do I apply the acidic rinse to the scalp only, or both the scalp and the rest of the hair?

    I gotcha. So for conditioning with oil, do the same rules apply--about only using it on the hair ends? Or does it not matter if you use oil on the scalp as well in the process? Also, do you recommend a certain type of oil for conditioning fine hair? owo
    Rinse first with water then an acidic rinse, concentrating on the scalp and letting it run down the hair. Make sure the acidic rinse is dilute enough. No straight vinegar, for example. Less is best at first and then increase to your ideal depending on how your hair and scalp responds.


    For oiling, many gently massage a couple of drops of oil into damp hair as a last step. Others put it on dry hair. It will help with softness, shine and detangling. Start with putting oil on the length only. Many people have problems with scalp reacting badly to oil. My scalp likes oil but others have had redness and extra hair shedding so I suggest saving that for later experiments, maybe before wash too. Oil on the scalp can make it look greasy faster too, especially on fine hair.

    For oil type, best to start with something you might already have at home: Extra virgin olive oil.

    If that's too heavy, try Jojoba oil (pronounced hohoba, if asking in store. ) There should be a fine hair focused thread on the Mane forum, ask what the participants usually use, you'll get good suggestions there. I know Lapushka and some others actually use mineral oil.

    @lapushka: Good to see more people cool with commercial. A lot of sites make commercial products seem like 'The bane of all hair that will give you cancer one day! Bewaaarrre!' No worries, I already know Dr. Bronners is overkill on hair (if not diluted). I only made homemade body wash using Dr. Bronners one time. It lasted a long time, which I really liked :]

    I don't suppose anyone here has made shampoo and conditioner with Dr. Bronners? Haha, if so I could make some of my own at the same time I make my next batch of body wash :{D
    A lot of those sites want you to click and read, that's why they make it so sensational. You'll find that plenty of them will contradict each other too. Around here you'll see "YMMV" (Your mileage may vary) a lot. Because even if something works for several people, it might not work for others.

    I use commercial sulfate-free products because the sulfate ones make me itch. Others must use sulfate shampoo to keep their scalp happy and that's ok too.

    As for Dr. Bronners shampoo, people have made mixes relating to that, but it wouldn't be a good conditioner as it's a liquid or solid soap. Conditioning agents need to smooth and coat. Usually oil mixes are used for home made conditioner instead.

    Another question for everyone: I have a coworker who uses a leave-in product called 'It's a 10.' It makes her hair really shiny, which made me think 'I've never had shiny-shiny hair before, but is that even healthy?' I know a lot of natural sites will tell you 'less is more' when it comes to products, since build-up of too many products is harmful. What do you think about products like that, and what 'shine' actually means from a hair health standpoint? owo
    It probably contains a lot of silicones, which are coating agents. A lot of shine serums are pretty much all dimethicone or cyclopentasiloxane. These can help reduce tangles too. Oils and silicones act similar in many ways, though oils will likely build up less with a natural shampoo or a shampoo bar/ dr. bronners than silicones will. Both coat the outside of the hair shaft and sit on top of it. Some oils can penetrate the hair but most can't. That coat makes the hair surface smoother, thus more reflective = more shine.

    As for whether it's healthy, if there are no side effects then there's no issue. If the product makes you itch, gives redness on scalp or skin where hair touches, gives pimples, cause more hair loss, or just makes your hair feel weird, then it's not a good idea to continue using it.

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