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CurlyCreature
April 16th, 2011, 10:59 PM
I was concerned when I ready that a few people on this forum are consuming silica for hair growth. Unlike biotin and other supplements, humans do not need a lot of silica and so we are usually not deficient and do not need "supplements". Taking supplements of silica over time can cause deficiency in other important vitamins/minerals in our body, and can also lead to worse health problems.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/288425-side-effects-of-silica-supplements/

I know we all want & love long hair. But remember to do your research and that hair WILL grow on it's own (for most of us.) If you are fortunate to have hair that grows (even if its slow) dont rush it if it means being unhealthy to your body. Any unorthodox "treatments" (monostat, silica, etc.) should never be done for extended periods of time. All that stuff is absorbed in to the body and our poor kidneys have to filter it all out again.

Long hair is treasured and valuable because it takes a long time and patience to grow it out. So be patient. Don't harm the rest of your beautiful body. *That is all <3*

Honestwitness
April 16th, 2011, 11:25 PM
Thanks for the caring advice. I appreciate the reminder that two of the most significant things about long hair are how long it takes to grow it and how is represents a healthy body.

sycamoreboutiqu
April 16th, 2011, 11:50 PM
Curly - Thanks for posting this reminder.

I got into it with the silica / Fullers Earth group awhile back and I got called a few things - including a troll just for questioning the practice. I asked them to provide some science to back it up but it was pretty much all "pseudo-science" except for one actual scientist who stood with me in arguing that it was a pretty unfounded practice.

Fullers Earth (silica) is a natural method used to kill fleas because the microscopic sharp edges slice their exoskeletons and they dehydrate to death. Kind of geeves me out to think about ingesting that material. Didn't seem to bother that group though, they are sold on the idea and swear they are getting up to 1inch per month of growth that they attribute to the minerals.

Sigh ....

Slinks
April 17th, 2011, 12:22 AM
Well, I'm going to have to thank you for that too .. I take Silica from time to time but I don't overload thankfully :-) I want to add tho that I don't take it for hair growth but for nail growth ..

Toadstool
April 17th, 2011, 02:49 AM
Curly - Thanks for posting this reminder.

I got into it with the silica / Fullers Earth group awhile back and I got called a few things - including a troll just for questioning the practice. I asked them to provide some science to back it up but it was pretty much all "pseudo-science" except for one actual scientist who stood with me in arguing that it was a pretty unfounded practice.

Fullers Earth (silica) is a natural method used to kill fleas because the microscopic sharp edges slice their exoskeletons and they dehydrate to death. Kind of geeves me out to think about ingesting that material. Didn't seem to bother that group though, they are sold on the idea and swear they are getting up to 1inch per month of growth that they attribute to the minerals.

Sigh ....

I had a similar argument with them because I was horrified at what they are ingesting. But no one would listen so I left it. I dread to think what damage they are doing to their bodies though.

Dragon
April 17th, 2011, 04:40 AM
Thanks for posting the info.

Firefox7275
April 17th, 2011, 04:59 AM
Thanks, Curlycreature, I hope you will continue to make your voice heard on this topic. I've posted the following previously

It truly frightens me the casual way supplements and herbal remedies are discussed, advocated or recommended, and the level of misinformation passed around by unqualified individuals as if it were gospel. I am not on a crusade to get everyone to stop taking supplements, but to get people to stop suggesting them to others without taking a full medical history and diet diary.

In response I am assured people do their own research, when the truth is that they do not. I have worked in and studied healthcare for two decades and have a constant stream of clients who, as Sycamoreboutiqu alludes to, get 'advice' from extremely dubious sources. :(

RitaPG
April 17th, 2011, 06:37 AM
Thank you for putting this up. I am about to finish my multivitamin and begin to experiment with other supplements, so I'll keep this in mind :flower:

Qadupae
April 17th, 2011, 06:41 AM
Thank you CurlyCreature for posting this ^_^ In the end, all medicines, supplements, and so on should be taken with caution and understanding of side effects.

Scarlet_Heart
April 17th, 2011, 09:04 AM
Thanks, curlycreature! I was thinking about trying silica but you made a few points very kindly that have caused me some trepidation. Very nice of you to think of the rest of us!

:heart:

CurlyCreature
April 17th, 2011, 01:50 PM
...but to get people to stop suggesting them to others without taking a full medical history and diet diary.

Very true and I agree! Everyone is different and who are we to "prescribe" chemicals, medications, and supliments. Some people on here may be very young :shrug: So even if we don't mean our recomendations to be taken seriously, some... doofuses, lol, out there may think we're experts!

I myself take biotin and multivitamins so I am not against supliments in general, I just want to remind people to not get so "hair crazy" that they forget and neglect the body attached to it. :rolleyes: When I first joined this forum I was horrified about the monistat use, :eek: as I myself have had horrible side effects just usinging it for the purpose it was made for! lol. But everyone is different! I just want us all to be *healthy and whole.* We're all so beautiful here, and while a little bit of obsession is totally natural, ;) one can go "too far" with anything

I wuv you all <3

Avital88
April 17th, 2011, 02:00 PM
Thanks for posting this, i wasnt even aware of positive side effects because ive only heard positive stories from the health store, i didnt even think there would be any so thanks a lot..

gthlvrmx
April 17th, 2011, 11:15 PM
Well i've been taking DE along with my friend for a month or so now. Basically does the same with parasites, but it says it's animal grade and given to mammals like dogs and cats. I do realize the effects of such things long term and i only plan to use it for now, biotin and my vitamins is enough for me :)

gogirlanime
April 18th, 2011, 12:37 AM
Hmmmm good to know thanks! I've been taking 500mg of silica everyday for the past two weeks. I think that's too much now, but luckily I've only been doing it for two weeks so I'm sure I'm fine. I'll have to cut the pills into 4 pieces and take one like once a week instead :)

McFearless
April 18th, 2011, 12:43 AM
Smart thread. A lot of people on here jump of vitamin bandwagons and take scary amounts of everything. Not all side effects show symptoms. Everyone be very careful. Damage to your organs are not worth an extra inch every 6 months.

gogirlanime
April 18th, 2011, 12:47 AM
Smart thread. A lot of people on here jump of vitamin bandwagons and take scary amounts of everything. Not all side effects show symptoms. Everyone be very careful. Damage to your organs are not worth an extra inch every 6 months.
I agree, I've been very careful in researching what supplements are safe and in what amounts. But this silica one is the first I've heard of. I take

-1,500mg MSM (and I have joint pains so it's nice cuz it helps with that too)
-3,000mcg biotin
-B complex 50mg (to make sure the biotin doesn't dominate)
-Multivitamin (self-explainatory)
-Royal jelly 2,000mg (it helps balance my hormones for my imbalance that way my hair doesn't thin)
-Choline & Inositol 250mg each (I drink coffee everyday and these two get depleted when you drink coffee so I have some to keep my levels up, a lack in these nutrients can cause un-healthy hair)

Panth
April 18th, 2011, 05:18 AM
I agree, I've been very careful in researching what supplements are safe and in what amounts. But this silica one is the first I've heard of. I take

-1,500mg MSM (and I have joint pains so it's nice cuz it helps with that too)
-3,000mcg biotin
-B complex 50mg (to make sure the biotin doesn't dominate)
-Multivitamin (self-explainatory)
-Royal jelly 2,000mg (it helps balance my hormones for my imbalance that way my hair doesn't thin)
-Choline & Inositol 250mg each (I drink coffee everyday and these two get depleted when you drink coffee so I have some to keep my levels up, a lack in these nutrients can cause un-healthy hair)

Just to note, the RDA for biotin is 30 mcg. So every day you are taking 100x what your body needs. Biotin overdosing has been associated with cystic acne, light-sensitive headaches and kidney problems. Just because it's water soluble doesn't mean it is harmless. :flower:

CurlyCreature
April 18th, 2011, 06:29 AM
Not all side effects show symptoms.

Exactly :cool:

Something I learned quite recently about vitamins/minerals (so i dont know if everyone else is aware of this) but your body doesnt hold onto "extra" like other nutrients. If you're consuming more than needed, or you already get enough in your diet, you just filter it through your kidneys and pee it out :shrug: I though more = better, but nope.

& I read on another medical Q&A site (though for the life of me, I can't find a link to it now) that for the most part, if you are taking a multivitamin, you are probably getting enough Silica with that a lone. So, save your money ;) lol, but also, do your own research- definitely don't just take me word for it. Look around, google: pros and cons, side effects, health risks, and weigh your options.

Aveyronnaise
April 18th, 2011, 06:33 AM
I just wanted to add that a safe way to get some extra silica is to drink Horsetail tea, it's a bit extra without the megadose. It doesn't really taste like anything that i remember.

FoxRain
April 18th, 2011, 08:27 AM
Wow, thank you! I didn't know this. I just started taking silica again. Unlike Biotin, I had heard about Silica before. People won't stop singing its praises. People normally make it sound like it's the most healthy thing you can take, so I didn't really think about the dangers (Oh, to be young and stupid :rolleyes:).
I'll be careful now. Thank you very much again!

Firefox7275
April 18th, 2011, 08:50 AM
Something I learned quite recently about vitamins/minerals (so i dont know if everyone else is aware of this) but your body doesnt hold onto "extra" like other nutrients. If you're consuming more than needed, or you already get enough in your diet, you just filter it through your kidneys and pee it out :shrug: I though more = better, but nope.


Sorry but you are mistaken: firstly some vitamins are water-soluble, some are fat-soluble. If your intake of water-soluble vitamins is modestly over the RDA (minimum) the excess will be excreted via the kidneys as you say. Mega-dosing is an entirely different matter - biotin has frequently been debated on LHC. It has long been established that fat-soluble vitamins A & D can build up to toxic levels over the long term; this is one reason pregnant females are advised to avoid certain foods or supplements.

The consequences of excess minerals varies with the dose and the effects are further complicated by the relationship of one with another and indeed their relationship with vitamins! Sodium opposes the action of potassium in blood pressure, magnesium opposes the action of calcium in muscle contraction, magnesium/ calcium/ vitamin D work synergistically to form strong bones ... In susceptible individuals an excess of calcium alongside an excess of sodium can cause kidney stones. :(

As far as macronutrients are concerned, the body can certainly store excess fat (!) and carbohydrates (as glycogen) but it does not store spare amino acids (protein). It sounds like you have a keen interest in dietetics which is awesome. :cool: Just please exercise great caution in where you glean your information as there is an INCREDIBLE amount of misinformation on the internet and in commercial diet books. Best sources are websites of universities, the US government, Australian Institute of Sport, UK National Health Service, healthcare charities, World Health Organisation.

HTH. :o

CurlyCreature
April 18th, 2011, 09:42 PM
Sorry but you are mistaken: firstly some vitamins are water-soluble, some are fat-soluble. If your intake of water-soluble vitamins is modestly over the RDA (minimum) the excess will be excreted via the kidneys as you say. Mega-dosing is an entirely different matter - biotin has frequently been debated on LHC. It has long been established that fat-soluble vitamins A & D can build up to toxic levels over the long term; this is one reason pregnant females are advised to avoid certain foods or supplements.

The consequences of excess minerals varies with the dose and the effects are further complicated by the relationship of one with another and indeed their relationship with vitamins! Sodium opposes the action of potassium in blood pressure, magnesium opposes the action of calcium in muscle contraction, magnesium/ calcium/ vitamin D work synergistically to form strong bones ... In susceptible individuals an excess of calcium alongside an excess of sodium can cause kidney stones. :(

As far as macronutrients are concerned, the body can certainly store excess fat (!) and carbohydrates (as glycogen) but it does not store spare amino acids (protein). It sounds like you have a keen interest in dietetics which is awesome. :cool: Just please exercise great caution in where you glean your information as there is an INCREDIBLE amount of misinformation on the internet and in commercial diet books. Best sources are websites of universities, the US government, Australian Institute of Sport, UK National Health Service, healthcare charities, World Health Organisation.

HTH. :o

ah thanks for the correction ;) just goes to prove my point further not to trust everything silly people say on the internet.

tinywife
April 18th, 2011, 10:05 PM
Curly, I just want to give you props for your sensitive and caring handling of a delicate subject.

justme
April 19th, 2011, 03:31 PM
I'd need actual scientific studies to be convinced of silica's benefits and/or negative side effects and as far as I can see there aren't any. The references in the linked article aren't actual studies and use a lot of "possibly...", "insufficient evidence", etc. They are also mostly about horsetail and different forms of silica may have different results (need more studies!).

I agree that everyone should be careful when taking any supplements. Do your own research. Use what seems to work for your body.

Given that, DE has literally been a miracle for my digestive system. I don't know if it's had much if any effect on my hair. At this point, I can't imagine going back to muscle spasms and pain lasting a week or longer at a time several times a year, and many other unpleasant digestive issues. I've been taking it for about a year.

MandyBeth
April 19th, 2011, 04:51 PM
I'm one of the DE takers, however I take it with my doctor's knowledge and approval.

Thus, my long running stance is that if you are seeing ANY massive changes in hair growth from a supplement, you have some other problem that needs to be corrected.

I use Monistat daily. I also am on medications that make me very prone to fungal infections and my scalp LOVES to get them. Thus, the Monistat keeps my scalp healthy and happy. No real growth from it.

I take biotin and other vitamins by the handful. The B vitamins. I do NOT process them correctly. I can take a bottle of biotin in a week and still be low. Trust me, you don't WANT to have to take as much as I do.

I take DE because it's a form of silica my body can use. I'm hideously low in it constantly.

I can go on if you'd like for my supplements.

However - why I take them - I have rampaging SLE/RA/Hashimoto's and their other friends and neighbors. My body is rejecting itself basically.

I'll gladly take slow hair growth or an early terminal if someone else would like to take my piss poor health.

GourmetChica
April 19th, 2011, 07:41 PM
I've read many medical studies that state that orthosilicic acid (OSA) is the only type of silica that is bio available (absorbable) to humans. I take Biosil, which was made by a company called Jarrow who I think has been bought out by Natrol, which has many studies supporting it for both hair and skin on pubmed. It has really helped my skin and hair. But, the drops taste awful, so I've just ordered the tablets (from vitacost).

There may be danger in taking too much, but the only thing I've read and I've searched is about a pond snail that had issues with the silica bonding to aluminum, and one about people inhaling it into their lungs.

Pretty much my theory is do your research, and everything in moderation.

PS: OSA can also be found in many foods, and even beer!

rusika1
April 19th, 2011, 09:31 PM
Exactly :cool:

Something I learned quite recently about vitamins/minerals (so i dont know if everyone else is aware of this) but your body doesnt hold onto "extra" like other nutrients. If you're consuming more than needed, or you already get enough in your diet, you just filter it through your kidneys and pee it out :shrug: I though more = better, but nope.

& I read on another medical Q&A site (though for the life of me, I can't find a link to it now) that for the most part, if you are taking a multivitamin, you are probably getting enough Silica with that a lone. So, save your money ;) lol, but also, do your own research- definitely don't just take me word for it. Look around, google: pros and cons, side effects, health risks, and weigh your options.

That only applies to the water soluble vitamins. A, D, E & K are fat soluble and therefore easier to overdose on if taken in excessive amounts.

I remember hearing a scientist years ago talk about the popularity of large doses of vitamin C. He said that for the most part it just gave you very expensive urine.:D

Unless you must follow an extremely restricted diet or have an actual inability to properly process nutrients (and in either case you should be under the care of a physician) a sensible, balanced diet should provide most or all of the nutrients you need.

So, what's the magic list of hair growth 'must haves'?
patience
(reasonably) good health
patience
(reasonably) good diet
patience
(reasonably) good hair care technique
patience
(reasonably) good hair genes
time (Rome wasn't built in a day; hair doesn't grow in a night)
patience
(and maybe a multivitamin with vitamin D and calcium)

KatiSasha
April 20th, 2011, 11:52 AM
I've read many medical studies that state that orthosilicic acid (OSA) is the only type of silica that is bio available (absorbable) to humans. I take Biosil, which was made by a company called Jarrow who I think has been bought out by Natrol, which has many studies supporting it for both hair and skin on pubmed. It has really helped my skin and hair. But, the drops taste awful, so I've just ordered the tablets (from vitacost).

There may be danger in taking too much, but the only thing I've read and I've searched is about a pond snail that had issues with the silica bonding to aluminum, and one about people inhaling it into their lungs.

Pretty much my theory is do your research, and everything in moderation.

PS: OSA can also be found in many foods, and even beer!

That's exactly what I've been taking for about 5 months now (the pill version) and it's the only thing that's helped me to regrow hair after taking my extensions out (I had 350 put in and they pulled SO MUCH hair out :() I take a multivitamin, fish oil, and amino acid supplement as well. But I work out lifting weights 5 times/week so it's mostly for that.

My hair is about 3 times thicker where the new growth is and I see baby hair popping up still. I've never tried DE - that one seemed scary, but OSA had studies done on it and it was found harmless. Also - what wrinkles I did have - went away :) I cannot recommend it more.

Firefox7275
April 20th, 2011, 01:02 PM
ah thanks for the correction ;) just goes to prove my point further not to trust everything silly people say on the internet.

Ha ha, indeed so (but I do not think you are silly). :p

MrsGuther
April 20th, 2011, 01:50 PM
Thanks for the caring advice. I appreciate the reminder that two of the most significant things about long hair are how long it takes to grow it and how is represents a healthy body.

Agreed. Thanks for the reminder OP. :)

merseaone
April 21st, 2011, 02:04 PM
Mrs Guther, your waist is enviable! Don't go and get anorexic or bulimic please!

RitaCeleste
April 21st, 2011, 02:54 PM
I don't know. If my hair started to grow really fast, I'd be in a doctor's office scared out of my mind. If I eat enough fat and protein, I seem to do just fine. I was really wondering about ingesting bug killer though. I wouldn't use Monistat on my head either. I kinda thought you'd have to be a special case for that to help. Besides it costs a bit and takes time to do. Same for all the hair and nail formulas. I've bought the bottles, nothing happened, got plenty left around here somewhere. I keep it as simple for me as possible. I try to cook more, and eat less processed foods. Everybody's gotta eat anyway. I'd rather spend what money I have on my favorite conditioner and to score some real meat to eat and veggies at the grocery store. I think this strategy would work really well for most people. I don't think people who's hair grows 1/2 per month, and isn't thinning should be doing anything special. I don't think unnaturally fast growth would mean stronger, better hair either or super good health anyway. If I have to choose between eating some beef and a bottle of vitamins, I'll go for the food. If you can afford good food, and you choose to eat good food, chances are extra stuff isn't needed. I understand everyone is different and some people have special concerns and needs. I'm not saying all everyone has to do is eat right, some people have special needs and concerns. I am looking dirty at perfectly healthy people doing things just to try and reach a goal quicker.

GuardGirl
April 21st, 2011, 06:01 PM
I have to second the comment about your waistline, MrsGuther! Enviable indeed! Haha, what nobody else but me knows is that it is the waistline of a nearly-seven-month-pregnant lady! Muah!! :)

GourmetChica
April 22nd, 2011, 02:48 AM
That's exactly what I've been taking for about 5 months now (the pill version) and it's the only thing that's helped me to regrow hair after taking my extensions out (I had 350 put in and they pulled SO MUCH hair out :() I take a multivitamin, fish oil, and amino acid supplement as well. But I work out lifting weights 5 times/week so it's mostly for that.

My hair is about 3 times thicker where the new growth is and I see baby hair popping up still. I've never tried DE - that one seemed scary, but OSA had studies done on it and it was found harmless. Also - what wrinkles I did have - went away :) I cannot recommend it more.

Yay! I'm so glad to hear the pill version is working for you. Here's the downside to Biosil, it makes your hair grow *everywhere*, not just on your head! Kind of a pain when it comes to leg shaving, but worth it for me! :)

gogirlanime
April 27th, 2011, 04:15 PM
Just to note, the RDA for biotin is 30 mcg. So every day you are taking 100x what your body needs. Biotin overdosing has been associated with cystic acne, light-sensitive headaches and kidney problems. Just because it's water soluble doesn't mean it is harmless. :flower:

Thanks for the concern, I asked my doctor before hand and he said that 3,000mcg a day would be safe for me, my kidneys were checked 6 months ago and were fine, I have flawless skin with no cysts, and no "beyond the normal amount" of headaches. I monitor myself carefully. I work at a GNC so I'm kinda a hypochondriac, so I always ask my doc and get check-ups all the time, and like 2 days after symptoms I see a doc haha.

wvgemini
April 27th, 2011, 04:41 PM
I was one of the ones fully on the silica/Diatomaceous Earth bandwagon a few months ago. I would take it every day. I thought it would do wonderful cleansing things to my body and I would drop weight, be healthy, etc. I stopped taking it because my skin went off, I was always tired and I started having kidney pain.

Fast forward to three weeks ago, I decided to take it again, but in a MUCH smaller amount. I mixed up ONE teaspoon in a bigh bottle of juice and drank it at work. About 30 minutes after finishing, I started to feel sick. Serious stomach pain and nausea sick. I started having some ... ahem ... gut issues and decided to go home. By this time I wasn't quite sure if I could drive myself, I felt THAT bad. Once home, I got violently ill. Horribly, horribly sick. Three weeks later and my system is finally getting back into shape. I was in Texas last week and every time I ate something with the smallest bit of spice (which I still did, despite the issues, heh), I had to make sure I would be near a bathroom within about 30 minutes. I will never take that stuff again.

justme
April 28th, 2011, 01:29 PM
I was one of the ones fully on the silica/Fuller's Earth bandwagon a few months ago.

Just a quick check. Do you mean Fuller's Earth or Diatomaceous Earth? They are quite different. One is clay and the other is ground up diatoms that are full of silica.

wvgemini
April 28th, 2011, 01:37 PM
Just a quick check. Do you mean Fuller's Earth or Diatomaceous Earth? They are quite different. One is clay and the other is ground up diatoms that are full of silica.

Whoops! Good catch! Thinking/reading something else and typing at the same time doesn't always work ...:o

Joliebaby
April 28th, 2011, 02:26 PM
I've been taking supplements on and off, but lately I'm just trying to finish what I have and spend money on healthy, organic food, fruit, veggies, nuts etc.
MIL keeps giving us omega fatty acid supplements that she orders from somewhere and that's great, I'll gladly take those, and B12 and vitamin D because it'd be hard for me to get those from food in sufficient amounts. But I pretty much think that when my diet is very healthy and mostly organic, I don't need many pills :D

Sereia
May 2nd, 2011, 11:47 AM
it's really important to post things like that, curly!
we must not be radical in anything we do, and in specific forums like LHC it's not unusual to see some radical advices that may provide us long, beautiful hair, but may cost a lot from our bodies, and that's not a good thing to do. :)