MSM is bad?

[allnaturalboy]

So I was at my family doctor for an appointment the other day. She's really into herbal medicine and natural healing so I like to discuss the different things I do to take care of my body with her. She's pretty open minded about things like that and doesn't ever try to just shove a pill at any problem that may come up. I always do research on my own before I take anything, but I also like to discuss it with her as she is my doctor and should know what I'm taking. Not to mention, I also like to hear her quote medical journals and studies on different herbs, etc. Now I know msm is not an herb, per se, but my point is she does her research and isn't just going to frown upon every little thing I take without a second thought. She was fine with everything I am currently taking, except for the MSM. She wanted me to stop taking it immediately and went on to say she wishes it would be removed from the market. She said that it can cause pretty severe kidney problems. Now, I don't remember exactly what she said, but I'll ask her again the next time I go. She said that it can build up in your kidneys, which can cause severe complications. However, she did go on to say that more research needs to be done on the amount and how long it takes to build up, etc. and whether or not a small amount is ok. She told me that she had an alarming number of patients who were taking msm that also had kidney problems, which would definitely support that. Next time I go, I'm going to ask her if she can show me a copy of a medical journal, research study, or something supporting this. All in all though, I was wondering what anyone else thinks of this? She told me she would really prefer if I just took a glucosamine supplement instead and that I would still get the benefits from MSM by taking this. However, I didn't tell her I was taking it for faster hair growth. Has anyone else heard of anything like this? I had done a lot of research on MSM before taking it and I had never heard of anything like that. I thought it was healthy, not just for hair, but for your body in general.

[Firefox7275]

Thank you for this. Many nutrients can be harmful in excess, most work synergistically or or oppose the effects of others so it is often not advisable to take supplements at random. Plus people tend to forget to take their diet, lifestyle and existing health conditions into consideration. Unless you have a science background I think you will find a published study hard going, you are better off read good quality secondary research, meta-analyses (review written by an expert) or a textbook.

If you want to do your reading online the best places to start are government publications and reports, university websites and those of other public interest organisations (registration bodies for subjects allied to health, healthcare charities, WHO). Please do not believe everything that is written in many commercial diet/ 'nutrition' books or magazines - if it was good quality it would likely have been accepted by a respected publishing house.

[akka naeda]

I don't think MSM makes the hair grow faster, it just stops the follicle falling out.
I take MSM and glucosamine, but the glucosamine is really for my joints; I've also had kidney stones a few years before I started taking the MSM, they haven't returned since I was taking it.

[Mesmerise]

Hmm I hadn't heard that about MSM, I will have to do some research. I first took it a couple of years ago, and I know that during that time my nails grew faster and were stronger, and my hair grew pretty fast that year too (although I wasn't measuring at the time so I have no benchmark), when I wasn't taking it last year I had major, major shedding!! I'm taking it again, but I'll need to find out more about it I guess!

Okay as an update I checked for contraindications of MSM online and I couldn't find any at all... the only thing is that it has slight blood thinning properties. Apart from that I read it has the toxicity of water. Check here for example: http://www.drugs.com/npc/methylsufonyl-methane-msm.html However, if anyone DOES find out any information about MSM that contradicts this, I'd be interested to read about it. I've checked a few pages, trying to find those that are unbiased, but according to all of them, it's safe.

[Firefox7275]

Okay as an update I checked for contraindications of MSM online and I couldn't find any at all... the only thing is that it has slight blood thinning properties. Apart from that I read it has the toxicity of water. Check here for example: http://www.drugs.com/npc/methylsufonyl-methane-msm.html However, if anyone DOES find out any information about MSM that contradicts this, I'd be interested to read about it. I've checked a few pages, trying to find those that are unbiased, but according to all of them, it's safe.

Sorry but that is far from a scientific reference you have supplied - it refers to another online articles not a study or quality review. The only other thing that leaps out of a swift Google is a 2002 study on toxicity in rats, if this supplement were indeed as safe as water there would be no need for such research.

"While these results are encouraging, both of these studies were sponsored by suppliers of MSM, and further independent peer-reviewed trials are needed ... The evidence in favour of MSM is much less convincing. True, there are promising signs, but there’s simply too little peer-reviewed scientific evidence in the literature to recommend its use unreservedly. Nevertheless, it is also one of the least toxic substances known in biology ..."
http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/degenerative-joints.html

Peak Performance is well thought of in the fitness industry, yet the only reference they supply as regards safety is a textbook from 1969! I would also note that studies on supplementation in the sports arena do not prove a supplement is safe or effective in the sedentary population. Athletes requirement for nutrients are substantially greater, just one reason why sports science and fitness for health are seen to be two ends of the spectrum.

HTH. :)

[littlenvy]

I don't think MSM makes the hair grow faster, it just stops the follicle falling out.
I take MSM and glucosamine, but the glucosamine is really for my joints; I've also had kidney stones a few years before I started taking the MSM, they haven't returned since I was taking it.
The very same goes for me. :)

[In2wishin]

I don't think MSM makes the hair grow faster, it just stops the follicle falling out.
I take MSM and glucosamine, but the glucosamine is really for my joints; I've also had kidney stones a few years before I started taking the MSM, they haven't returned since I was taking it.

I used to take a combo of Glucosamine, chondroitin, and MSM for my joints. It didn't seem to help so I stopped. I started taking MSM for my hair and discovered that my joints actually got less painful. Apparently MSM is the thing for me but the amount in the combo wasn't enough.

I will be watching this thread to see if there is any reason to rethink my use of it or if the positives outweigh the negatives for me.

[jesis]

I've heard bad things about taking MSM orally, but really good things about using powdered MSM on your head in a type of spray. :)

[Taika]

Im taking glugosamine for my joints.(long story) but I have not noticed it influensing my hair... I was allso told by my doctor to start taking MSM for my joints and switching it with the glugosamine time to time (like 3monts other, 3months other, then 3months pause) Im waiting for the MSM to arrive, and Im hoping that it might affect my hair too... :p My doctor did not mention anything about kidney broblems though. Only about the bloodthinning- Which would benefit me too. I need to ask about this.:)

[EmiliaF]

As far as I know people take MSM for hair growth because it contains sulfur which is the ingredient that's (supposedly) associated with the hair growth.
I also wasn't sure about MSM, so I looked for something and found a hair vitamin that contains Cysteine and Methionine... amino acids that contain sulfur. So I am now taking this instead.
Maybe you can find something like that as well?!

[Unofficial_Rose]

I take MSM for my joints - I get a little stiff without it, and I'm only in my 40's. :( Never noticed any effects on the hair, and I've been taking it for nearly 10 years. No kidney problems as far as I know...

[Rocket22]

this was once talked about here. http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=64553&page=5

I personally still take a large does because it helps a ton with my joints, so far I've not had any problems.

[Mesmerise]

Sorry but that is far from a scientific reference you have supplied - it refers to another online articles not a study or quality review. The only other thing that leaps out of a swift Google is a 2002 study on toxicity in rats, if this supplement were indeed as safe as water there would be no need for such research.

"While these results are encouraging, both of these studies were sponsored by suppliers of MSM, and further independent peer-reviewed trials are needed ... The evidence in favour of MSM is much less convincing. True, there are promising signs, but there’s simply too little peer-reviewed scientific evidence in the literature to recommend its use unreservedly. Nevertheless, it is also one of the least toxic substances known in biology ..."
http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/degenerative-joints.html

Peak Performance is well thought of in the fitness industry, yet the only reference they supply as regards safety is a textbook from 1969! I would also note that studies on supplementation in the sports arena do not prove a supplement is safe or effective in the sedentary population. Athletes requirement for nutrients are substantially greater, just one reason why sports science and fitness for health are seen to be two ends of the spectrum.

HTH. :)

Well I agree I didn't take a long time to do the research, I just did a very quick hunt to see what I could find. I'd love to find a proper reference paper.

As for the study of toxicity on rats, studies like this are conducted on virtually EVERYTHING to determine how toxic they are, so that's no indication on whether or not MSM actually IS toxic in certain doses. Studies like this just work out how much needs to be used before toxic effects occur (at least in rats...and then they extrapolate for humans).

I'm not actually saying it's NOT at all toxic, just that I haven't found any information stating that it is. I am sure it DOES have a certain level of toxicity because most things do (even too much water will kill you!!) However, from the sounds of it, it's probably less worrying than taking supplements of something like Vitamin E, which a lot of people do without thinking. Obviously if someone starts taking megadoses of ANY supplement they're asking for trouble, even if the supplement has been deemed completely "safe".

[dropinthebucket]

MSM does make hair grow faster for many people. Sulphur is a major nutrient needed for the formation of hair, nails, and in animals, hooves.

However, large doses of sulphur cannot be excreted quickly by the kidneys. Sulphur builds up in the soft tissues, including kidneys, liver, and brain. At 6000 mg/day (for arthritis), I experienced the characteristic "brain buzz" - fogginess, euphoria, memory loss - a result of the sulphur being stored in the brain.

Eventually, the body will clear it, but it will take a while, and it can be hard on the liver and kidneys. Most healthy people can clear 1,000 mg/day from the circulatory system within about 12-16 hours (but again, "most" is the operative word).

Sulphur also blocks iodine absorption, so if thyroid issues are present, it can exacerbate them. However, many people do not get enough sulphur in their diet, with other health issues resulting from sulphur deficiency. And it is very effective for athritis, if you can tweak your dosage and get it right. So, MSM is not bad - you just have to understand how it all fits together. No substitute for research! Always research anything you plan to take, I would say.

[Mesmerise]

Yes, it certainly makes sense to be cautious regarding the quantity you take. I take one tablet of 1500mg a day, which would seem to me to be adequate. I guess it can help some people in larger quantities, but at the same time, it seems as if in larger quantities it CAN prove to be problematic for certain people too.

I guess in this it's like anything! Most things taken in excess aren't good for you, and some people can stand higher doses than others.

[Panth]

A very quick perusal of the Web of Knowledge scientific journal database comes up with these papers:

Gregory PJ et al. (2008 ) Dietary supplements for osteoarthritis. American Family Physician. 77, 177-184.

Magnuson BA et al. (2007) Oral developmental toxicity study of methylsulfonylmethane in rats. Food and Chemical Toxicology. 45, 977-984.

Magnuson BA et al. (2007) Pharmacokinetics and distribution of [S-35]methylsulfonylmethane following oral administration to rats. Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry. 55, 1033-1038.

Horvath K et al. (2002) Toxicity of methylsulfonylmethane in rats. Food and Chemical Toxicology. 40, 1459-1462.

However, of course, only one of those studies is in humans and in any case the risk:benefit ratio for someone with osteoarthritis is rather different than someone simply wanting a quick way to get long hair!

I would be interested to see what research your doctor is basing her recommendations on.

[CarpeDM]

I took MSM (1000 a day) for about 6 months and didn't notice any changes in regards to hair growth. On the topic of safety I haven't heard or read anything that states it is unsafe, but I do think you can get the sulfur benefits of MSM by selecting the right foods.

[Firefox7275]

IMO there is a difference between someone taking MSM for hair growth and someone taking it for a joint complaint that is either (semi) disabling or affecting quality of life. Health and wellbeing are about more than just diet - if a client with arthritis gains enough benefit that they can go from sedentary to 10,000 steps a day then the risks a whole host of diseases is slashed. That could certainly outweigh a small risk of kidney problems. For the rest of us a balanced diet will provide all the nutrients needed for hair growth, virtually risk-free and with the 'side effect' of becoming healthier. :disco:

There is also a difference between a supplement (or indeed drug) that experts deem safe, toxic or unproven. I am not suggesting that MSM is toxic because I have no evidence to back up that assertion; I am saying we should NOT be advocating its use unless we are completely confident it is safe. For any health professional this means a strong body of published research - I look for meta-analyses from a respected journal. Why? Because that highlights the studies on a handful of individuals completed by a body with a vested interested, trials that were not double-blind etc. If that is not available studies such as this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nurses'_Health_Study

[Firefox7275]

Well I agree I didn't take a long time to do the research, I just did a very quick hunt to see what I could find. I'd love to find a proper reference paper.

As for the study of toxicity on rats, studies like this are conducted on virtually EVERYTHING to determine how toxic they are, so that's no indication on whether or not MSM actually IS toxic in certain doses. Studies like this just work out how much needs to be used before toxic effects occur (at least in rats...and then they extrapolate for humans).

I'm not actually saying it's NOT at all toxic, just that I haven't found any information stating that it is. I am sure it DOES have a certain level of toxicity because most things do (even too much water will kill you!!) However, from the sounds of it, it's probably less worrying than taking supplements of something like Vitamin E, which a lot of people do without thinking. Obviously if someone starts taking megadoses of ANY supplement they're asking for trouble, even if the supplement has been deemed completely "safe".

I am not questioning the amount of time you spent, I am questioning your choice of source. I have go-to websites that I know carry information I can trust (universities, UK NHS, US government, Oz Institute of Sport, healthcare charities, WHO etc.). Thorough toxicity studies are NOT carried out on everything, the regulations are very different for drugs and food supplements. :(

From the sounds of what? :confused: Just because a website claims that it is safer than water and that statement has been copied all over the net does not make it factual. I can find websites 'proving' that the world is flat or that senior politicians and A-list celebrities are shape-shifting aliens. If the author has not referenced the study 'proving' MSM is as safe as water chances are that he hasn't read it, just copied and pasted from another questionable website.

I am genuinely sorry if that comes over as rude :o I feel passionate about healthcare and it truly frightens me how much misinformation there is on the internet. I've worked in healthcare for twenty years and studied several disciplines to degree level, so I have good reason to be concerned.

[In2wishin]

IMO there is a difference between someone taking MSM for hair growth and someone taking it for a joint complaint that is either (semi) disabling or affecting quality of life. Health and wellbeing are about more than just diet - if a client with arthritis gains enough benefit that they can go from sedentary to 10,000 steps a day then the risks a whole host of diseases is slashed. That could certainly outweigh a small risk of kidney problems. For the rest of us a balanced diet will provide all the nutrients needed for hair growth, virtually risk-free and with the 'side effect' of becoming healthier. :disco:

There is also a difference between a supplement (or indeed drug) that experts deem safe, toxic or unproven. I am not suggesting that MSM is toxic because I have no evidence to back up that assertion; I am saying we should NOT be advocating its use unless we are completely confident it is safe. For any health professional this means a strong body of published research - I look for meta-analyses from a respected journal. Why? Because that highlights the studies on a handful of individuals completed by a body with a vested interested, trials that were not double-blind etc. If that is not available studies such as this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nurses'_Health_Study


I agree to a point with you. Ultimately we need to be aware of what we are doing and make an informed choice for ourselves. I don't think we necessarily need to study everything to the point of being able to write a dissertation, but anecdotal evidence isn't enough when it comes to safety either.

[brunetka]

If your doctor give you the references she's basing this on, please share with us. I'm very interested in seeing these.

On PubMed, all I could find was the studies cited above, which do not report any kidney problems

Toxicity of methylsulfonylmethane in rats. 2002
Horváth K, Noker PE, Somfai-Relle S, Glávits R, Financsek I, Schauss AG.
Pharmaceutical Control and Development Laboratory Ltd, Budapest, Hungary.

"The objective of this study was to evaluate the acute and subchronic toxicity of MSM in rats at a dose five to seven times the maximum recommended dose in humans. MSM administered in a single gavage dose of 2 g/kg resulted in no adverse events or mortality. MSM administered as a daily dose of 1.5 g/kg for 90 days by gavage resulted in no adverse events or mortality. Necropsy did not reveal any gross pathological lesions or changes in organ weights. Renal histology of treated animals was normal. It is concluded that MSM is well tolerated in rats at an acute dose of 2 g/kg and at a subacute chronic dose of 1.5 g/kg."

just google searching, I found a couple websites (not related to any medical organizations) referencing a 1997 book (Williams, S. 1997. Nutrition & Diet Therapy (8th ed.). Academic Press, N.Y., N.Y.) as saying that persons with renal tube defects, those prone to kidney stones, and those with defects in sulfur metabolism should avoid MSM. I don't have access to this book or it's sources.

[nliedel]

I use msm as a carrier topically. I don't ingest it, but I've not read anything about it being toxic. I have an MD, secret hippy, friend who will get to the bottom of it. I'll mail her tonight.

[Rocket22]

I use msm as a carrier topically. I don't ingest it, but I've not read anything about it being toxic. I have an MD, secret hippy, friend who will get to the bottom of it. I'll mail her tonight.

Oh please do :) I take a lot!!!! but it helps me to walk, so at this point I'm going to continue. Everything I have read says it can be taken in a large dose with no harm? :confused:

[allnaturalboy]

I didn't expect so many replies to this!

I plan on getting the information from my doctor the next time I go to see her. I have no idea when that will be though. >.<

I found this online:

"Dietary Sources

The elemental mineral form of sulfur is found in rocks near hot springs and volcanos. The form your body uses is found in protein-rich foods such as meat, organ meats, poultry, fish, eggs, cooked dried beans and peas, and milk and milk products. Other good sources include garlic, onions, brussels sprouts, asparagus, kale, and wheat germ."

[pixistixx]

MSM acts almost like a solvent, so if you buy it in loose crystalline form, do not buy it in plastic! depending on the type of plastic used, the msm can absorb the plastic. I'm guessing this would then be bad to ingest. to counteract this, buy in capsule form, or in glass bottles. personally, it makes my heart beat really fast and I get cold sweats from certain brands. Doctor's best brand gave me the worst reaction, and NOW foods brand didn't give me any. I am allergic/ sensitive to sulfa drugs and certain but not all sulfur rich foods like onions, garlic, and eggs. It may be that MSM can be made or sourced from different things, varying from brand to brand (much like everything is made from corn, like xanthan gum, and vitamin C supplements especially!) I believe some MSM is sourced from some type of pine tree, but not sure if all of it is. if you have allergies to sulfur rich foods, and want to take MSM, it would be a good idea to contact different companies and see where theirs is sourced from.

[In2wishin]

I didn't expect so many replies to this!

I plan on getting the information from my doctor the next time I go to see her. I have no idea when that will be though. >.<

I found this online:

"Dietary Sources

The elemental mineral form of sulfur is found in rocks near hot springs and volcanos. The form your body uses is found in protein-rich foods such as meat, organ meats, poultry, fish, eggs, cooked dried beans and peas, and milk and milk products. Other good sources include garlic, onions, brussels sprouts, asparagus, kale, and wheat germ."

Aha ! So that explains some of the ummmm "gastric aftereffects" of those foods I highlighted.

[Persiangirl01]

Wanting to revive this post! Anyone here have any bad experiences with MSM or found out about any ill side effects that MSM may have? What is a good amount to take?

[Nellon]

Yes, also curious about this. I take it, about two teaspoons a day, and it helps my allergies and migraines a lot!

[Simsy]

As with all drugs, and substances, it depends on the dose and your own genetic makeup. Some people will react to various amounts, others won't. The usual rule about the dose making the poison will also apply to a large degree. If in doubt, speak to your doctor.

[Persiangirl01]

Nellon do you take 2 full teaspoons? That's like 8g! I take about half a teaspoon a day. Trying to work my way up to 1 a day (4g) i have noticed i get headaches if I up the dose too quickly. It is a heavy detoxer so that makes sense, but it makes me wonder about the effects on the liver or kidneys.

[Nellon]

Yeah, maybe that's a lot. I did read that it's non toxic and that people sometimes need to take a bit more before they notice results etc. So yeah, maybe going down to one a day is good? slowly. I have been taking it for some time though. In the beginning it was really bad, but I slowly got used to it, and was able to up the dose a bit. Maybe should cut down, just in case :) Hard to know. And the doctors I've met don't ever really say anything about supplements, relying so heavily on prescribed medicines as the only solution (of which I take hardly any) so it's hard to know.

I'll ask around a bit, both doctors and non doctors and see :)

I mean, if it really is non toxic in any way, why not take a bit more if it helps, right. But in case possibly toxic, good to be careful...

I've had migraines for a long time, and it has been really hard. So I was very very happy to find something that helped..

[lapushka]

MSM is in my glucosamine/chondroitine supplement. I'm not sure how much, but not that much I bet. Some days I take glucosamine on its own, then the other day a full MSM/glucosamine/chondroitine one. I interchange so it doesn't get too much. I'm careful with supplementation.

[Nellon]

I just called the lady at the local health store that I buy MSM from to ask her opinion on the matter! :) She said that over all the years she's sold MSM she's never heard of any problems in this regard, and never even heard of it being harmful for the kidneys. That being said, she recommended to not go over the dose said on the label of the jar, which I think is about a teaspoon. She also said that she has gotten lots of different people saying they've had different positive effects on taking MSM over the years. She also said that as with all things, too high of a dosage is maybe not good, but taken in the right amount things can be very beneficial.

So, I've decided to slowly go down to 1 teaspoon and stay there :)
That's my take on it. Sounds pretty obvious now, but yeah. Good there is LHC for helping one see the obvious.

Perhaps though MSM might not be that toxic in higher doses, and perhaps some people do benefit from higher doses.

This is hardly a scientific inquiry or post. It's just me rather being safe than sorry.

If anyone has some additional facts that are more hardcore than the opinions of the lady at the local health food store I'd be happy to read about that!!! :) I'll do some more research as well I think.

I do think taken in the right amount, whatever that is, MSM can probably be extremely beneficial. over and out.

[catasa]

I tried MSM for some weeks a couple of years ago, and had a bad reaction building up over time, even though I started very low (about 1/3 of a teaspoon) and didn´t get much above that in dose. I didn´t feel nervous or anxious mentally, but physically I got all shaky, wound up, jittery, felt like my blood had been carbonated, and at the same time I was very fatigued. It was extremely unpleasant. Then when I stopped I got another reaction - I got very sick-feeling, flu-like but without fever, nauseous and fatigued, to the point where I went to a doctor (who couldn´t find anything wrong). This stayed for about a week, the I slowly got back to normal.

I hadn´t changed anything else and both reactions were very clear/abnormal and unlike anything I had felt before, so I can´t think it was anything other than the MSM causing it. I googled quite a lot after that and found some references stating that MSM can affect cortisol in the body, and that was the closest I ever got to a possible explanation. Needless to say, I am staying well away from MSM (as well as other supplements) now, I won´t even use it topically :couch:

[holy_kristina]

There isn't enough information about MSM's safety when you apply it to the hairs or skin. So far studies have shown minimal side effects when MSM is taken orally, but some people may experience mild gastrointestinal side effects such as discomfort or diarrhea.




Hmm I hadn't heard that about MSM, I will have to do some research. I first took it a couple of years ago, and I know that during that time my nails grew faster and were stronger, and my hair grew pretty fast that year too (although I wasn't measuring at the time so I have no benchmark), when I wasn't taking it last year I had major, major shedding!! I'm taking it again, but I'll need to find out more about it I guess!

Okay as an update I checked for contraindications of MSM online and I couldn't find any at all... the only thing is that it has slight blood thinning properties. Apart from that I read it has the toxicity of water. Check here for example: http://www.drugs.com/npc/methylsufonyl-methane- (http://www.drugs.com/npc/methylsufonyl-methane-msm.html)msm (http://eddrugs2017.com/methyl-sulfonyl-methane-mineral-ed-effect/).html (http://www.drugs.com/npc/methylsufonyl-methane-msm.html) However, if anyone DOES find out any information about MSM that contradicts this, I'd be interested to read about it. I've checked a few pages, trying to find those that are unbiased, but according to all of them, it's safe.

[*Wednesday*]

I take MSM in a vitamin supplement (skin, hair, nails). Two tablets daily = 1000 mcg. MSM was used to manage joint pain. Some people take in the upwards 5,000 mcg and also report weight gain in higher doses. I won't go higher than 1k.