Cassia or Henna question please ! Thank You :)

[UltraBella]

So, besides deciding on another thread to cut my hair and add more of my beloved layers, I am also contemplating a color change.

I was originally going to put Matrix Colorsync (a deposit only demi-color) in a level 7 neutral on my hair to tone down my copper red. I would apply it to my roots first and then 20 minutes later I would apply it to my lengths. I love the copper red but my roots are awful within two weeks and the upkeep is driving me bonkers. I don't want to bleach it out, just tone it down to blend better with my regrowth.

Before I go ahead with this plan, I thought I should ask those of you with experience with henna and cassia about coming up with an alternative option, like a gloss maybe. I know henna traditionally gives you a bright orange-red, but I have seen pictures of members who say they "henna" and it is a nice light or medium brown. Is it possible for me to achieve something similar and tone down my copper red with a henna/cassia gloss, or am I nuts ?
Would it be okay over my color treated hair ? I have only ever used a demi color and I do have a few subtle bleached highlights.
Would I apply it like I would a regular color, roots first and then lengths ? Or all at once ?
And, how do you make a gloss anyway ? ? ?
Any words or wisdom or advice is appreciated. I would love the shine and conditioning of a more natural product but I dont want to make an oops !
Thanks !!
(AspenSong, this is all your fault for that great after picture you posted in the mane forum recently !!!!)

[pennyroyal]

I am, by no means, a henna-expert yet but i do kno that the best way to get a brownish color with henna is to mix it with indigo in a 1 step process. To make a henna gloss you would put the powder in your conditioner & use that on the hair you want henna'd.

here is a link to a thread showing pics of everyones henndigo heads. http://www.longhaircommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21272

See what color you are going for & maybe ask that member what ratios of henna & indigo they use for their mix & what their hair color was previous.

Hope that helps! :) I bet it will look beautiful!

[akuamoonmaui]

First of all UltraBella, you are one of my hair idols :bowtome:

I have been doing something very similar with my hair. I have used permanent dye fairly consistently and have recently started using henna glosses and am really happy with the results.

I have done 3 glosses over a period of 6 weeks or so. I used the Herbco/chestnut(its only 15% indigo instead of the average 20-30%). Do not wait for dye release or you will lose the indigo effect. Always do the strand test! I didn't know the indigo would disappear :magic: after a short time (I let it release for about 6 hours). Someone kindly informed me. Rather than risk the unknown, I did a second hairball test with the "active" indigo. There was a difference and I liked the active indigo better for more of a subtle "red".

My first gloss was with yogurt and jojoba oil, the following two were with suave conditioner and jojoba oil. I use coconut oil fairly regularly and had no trouble with the wash-out process. I kept all of the treatments in for 45 min. - 1 hr. 'cause I'm chicken.

My DD bought a box of med. golden brown dye and I used it after the 2nd gloss. My hair was very dark brown, but the red "glow" came through. That's been about 2 1/2 weeks ago and the box dye is fading, but the henna is still there.

I don't have any pictures of the last dye/gloss, but here is one after the 1st gloss.

http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd511/akuamoonmaui/postglossx004.jpg

My hair isn't as red as yours now, but it sounds like without color, it is similar.

Oh, I knew there was something else.... I'm really happy with how henna affects my hair, it is shinier and feels thicker. The quality of the "red" is excellent and you don't get that disappointing fade after oh...... 4 days. Week 6 and it still has that "new color" smell... :)

Hope this helps. And you're welcome!

[UltraBella]

Oh, thank you, pennyroyal !! I appreciate you responding !
I want to stear clear of indigo I think. All the photos are much darker than what I am aiming for and since I do bleach in highlights sometimes, I think indigo would be a no no. I have heard tales of it lifting to a greenish muck and I am scared !!

akuamoonmaui, that is very sweet of you, thank you. *blushes*

[akuamoonmaui]

Wait! I wasn't done yet!!
And the henna helps to improve the texture of my ends. They are more "substantial" if that makes sense.

And another thing, (Ok, it's getting late, I need to go to bed....) for the cost of the henna, it's worth the strand test. Shipping to HI is painful, and I think it cost $3 to get it here. The bag was $7? for the stuff? No chemicals, conditioning, long lasting, pretty color and no real loss of $ if you don't like your test.

[UltraBella]

Oh, that's pretty !!!!! Gorgeous color !!!
I am trying to tone down my copped red though, so I am just worried that a henna gloss may do the opposite. If indigo is my only option for a brown tone then I will have to pass and just go with my original demi-color plan.
I can't help but think there must be some way to get a more neutral tone and still reap the health benefits of a natural product. Hmmmm..........

[caribou55313]

If you are wanting to tone down copper red, I don't think you want to use henna ... even in small amounts it will add bright copper sparkles to your color in bright sunlight.

I have used a dilute indigo gloss (1 tablespoon indigo mixed into 1 cup conditioner, applied for 30 minutes) without any henna, to tone the red of my previously hennaed hair. I only did it once and it faded away within 3-4 weeks, but you should never *count on* indigo fading. If you don't have any henna in your hair already, though, indigo will have a hard time binding with your hair - so if it works at all, it probably will not stay around long.

I think you'd be better off with your demi/ deposit-only plan.

The other thing about using plant dyes is that, since henna doesn't fade, you get a very sharp roots line when the new growth comes in. Demi color, since it fades, gives a more blended appearance to the roots growth.

[UltraBella]

If you are wanting to tone down copper red, I don't think you want to use henna ... even in small amounts it will add bright copper sparkles to your color in bright sunlight.

I have used a dilute indigo gloss (1 tablespoon indigo mixed into 1 cup conditioner, applied for 30 minutes) without any henna, to tone the red of my previously hennaed hair. I only did it once and it faded away within 3-4 weeks, but you should never *count on* indigo fading. If you don't have any henna in your hair already, though, indigo will have a hard time binding with your hair - so if it works at all, it probably will not stay around long.

I think you'd be better off with your demi/ deposit-only plan.

The other thing about using plant dyes is that, since henna doesn't fade, you get a very sharp roots line when the new growth comes in. Demi color, since it fades, gives a more blended appearance to the roots growth.

That's part of the problem, Demi color doesn't fade on me. I have a very serious line of demarcation. I have always retained color very well, the copper red is impossible for me to fade out. I just want to tone it down. I saw someone on here recently who used a henna/ cassia mix to get rid of their yellow/ brassy hair color so I thought maybe it would work for me too.

[little_cherry]

How about a Cassia/amla/henna mix? It would give you a lighter result..the cassia and henna would give a lighter 'orange', while the amla would tone it down. There are lots of places online where you can order samples...or you could try lush caca brun in a gloss; they give out samples, too.

[NouvelleNymphe2]

These two articles by Nightshade talk a lot about henna + other herbs. I would read them if you are considering henna:

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=7

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=2

hope that helps :)

[UltraBella]

Thanks so much guys ! I will read the articles and check out the lush casa brun too :)

[TrudieCat]

I have not used henna myself, though I've had a sample size of Nightblooming strawberry blonde mix sitting in my bathroom for a looong time in anticipation of making a weak henna glaze that I still haven't been able to bring myself to do.

BUT anyway... This thread (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=59389&highlight=henna+gloss) inspired me to do the henna glaze (that I haven't actually done yet, lol :p). There is a really lovely example of what a weak henna glaze can do, and it's not too flaming orange. :) It seems like the key is maybe to use less henna than you might thing... although obviously I am no expert on this. :o

I also really like to stalk this page (http://www.hennaforhair.com/mixes/index.html) on Henna For Hair. I particularly like how the member Evie (scroll about halfway down the page) used a weak gloss to warm up her hair color without flames.

I'll be interested to see what you decide to do! :)

[LaurelSpring]

Definately stay away from Indigo!! I have med. brown hair and even just a hint of it made my hair almost black. I am now using a Cassia/catnip/buxus/henna/amla mix and I get a nice blonde on my grays. It has taken me years of experimentation to get a mix I like so it can take a good bit of patience and because it is super permanent its really hard to fix mistakes.

If you really want to try it I would take baby steps. First a straight Cassia experimenting with and without dye release and then as a gloss and then not as a gloss perhaps adding catnip for more blonde.

If that didnt do the trick I would try putting in a tsp each of henna and buxus in with the Cassia to make blonde and throw in a tsp of amla (post dye release) to cut the red. You can continue to up the henna and buxus in equal parts to get it browner and browner.

I've been at it for years now and I am still playing with the mix!

When I apply it I use a tint brush and do the roots first and then mix whats left with conditioner and do the rest. I bag it and then wrap it with saran wrap and put a knit cap over the whole thing for about 3 hours. I have been getting my stuff from hennaforhair. They have a really helpful forum over there also. Keep us posted! Would love to see your results if you give it a try.

[UltraBella]

I really want to try it, I am just unsure of WHAT to try ! Big decision !

[prosperina]

I don't think either cassia or henna or a combination of the two would tone down copper red. I guess it depends on what you mean by "tone down." I have medium blondish roots and while I don't have an abrupt line of demarcation, with every henna/cassia mix I've done the colors have been brighter than my roots, even though I'm not really coppery anymore.

As far as matching hair to roots, I'm nearly there, but given the colors of henna/cassia on my hair, I'm convinced my roots will always look drab and vaguely greyish. What is actually a very warm shade of honey blond looks drab an unexciting up against even the very tame light red/strawberry blond that is now the first four inches of my hair.

Also, I would suggest against using henna if you want highlights at some point. If I were you, I would do a cassia (maybe with honey and chamomille too) and see what happens. It couldn't hurt.

[madeline_]

I second someone mentioning buxus. I want to start moving back and forth between cinnamon and copper, and buxus does seem a whole lot less scary than indigo. It's prone to fading, so I guess you would have to do only one henna-cassia-buxus application, followed by a monthly buxus gloss.