Henna+Shampoo?

[FluffSpider]

Hello LHC
I've been reading some more on henna these days, and I seem to stumble upon the 'don't shampoo hair after hennaing' interdiction ALOT. My only kink is that I have an oily scalp, and I wash my hair once a week(washed once on 5th day, left me with a frizzy non-shiny mess of God-forsaken depressed hair.)And I would terribly hate it if I had to walk around with my hair in a bun for a week after hennaing. I can deal with 4 days out of 7, but all?nah. (COs leave my roots somewhat oily...)
So, end line, my question is: does the shampoo affect the colour of the henna?If so, in which way?

P.S. I would also like to ask what evils Sodium Picramate can do on hair... It seems my henna has the stuff in it, and the only thing I've noticed is that it releases dye extremely fast.

[sibiryachka]

"Does shampoo affect the color of the henna?" It seems to me that just about anything can affect the color ;) My understanding of the reason not to shampoo right after henna is that initial applications are most susceptible to fading - if it's going to fade, that's when it's likely to happen. Shampooing, especially with a sulfatey shampoo, can increase that.

However, not everyone does experience fading, shampoo or no. And in this thread

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=62602&highlight=henna

Arielle 8960 reports that she accidentally mixed shampoo, instead of conditioner, with her henna, with "no visible evidence"! I'd be interested to know whether she sees any increase in fading, or other consequences, in the future.

My own practice has always been to shampoo/clarify immediately before applying henna. The first few times I rinsed it out with water only; since then I've added a CO wash to follow the rinse, which works way better to remove the residue from my scalp than just water. Either way, I wait at least two days before shampooing, to give the henna a chance to oxidize first. I'm getting ready to touch up my roots this weekend, and will be trying yet another changed-up routine now that I'm on the coconut-oil+shampoo bandwagon :)

If you wash your hair only every seventh day, maybe you could apply henna on, say, day 4 or 5? If CO washing doesn't work for you, rinsing out the henna with water only is certainly an option, especially if you have a bathtub for a mermaid soak. It will just take longer, and may be not quite as thorough. My big issue with it, and reason for adding the CO wash, was the god-awful itching caused by henna residue lingering on my scalp. Only you can judge what you can live with and what you can't.

And honestly, while henna is unpredictable, it's also pretty forgiving and flexible; it's gonna give you stain if you give it a fighting chance, assuming it's of good quality. How dark that stain gets, how long it stays... that's what keeps us on our toes! I guess the "moral" is, don't be afraid to experiment, within the framework of what you already know your hair and scalp need.

[fairystar32]

Hi
I have always washed my hair after henna and on henna for hair site, it has been asked many times and they are told, it does not cause any issues and does not remove henna dye, but is helpful to make sure all of the dust removed to prevent the itchies.

[Arielle8960]

Ah yes, it was me who recently had the shampoo-henna incident. I decided to slop the sudsy mess on my head anyway (I had clarified earlier in the day). Aside from smelling bizarre and the mud washing out in bubbles, I've seen no difference in color, immediate fading, stain, etc. It's only been a few days so if something weird happens down the line, I'll be sure to come back and report.

As for the washing. I find that I put my hair up for the first few days while the henna completely oxidizes. I tend to look pretty orange for 2-3 days before it settles down. By day 3 I'm ready to wash with a shampoo bar. I've never noticed any problems. A final note: I find that CO is not good for me as a normal routine, but is fine for getting the henna out (assuming I don't mix it with shampoo!).

[purple_figtree]

I also CO the henna out, and often have to wash with shampoo a few days later because of oiliness. I haven't found that it affects the colour versus not washing with shampoo and just putting up with the greasiness, which I can't stand.

I have no idea what sodium picrimate is, but pure henna works very well to dye hair. I don't think additives are necessary (aside from things like lemon juice).

[KarenSJ]

Well, I shampooed my last root touch-up hendigo with VO5 clarifying shampoo and it removed the indigo, and caused my Celebration henna to fade/not oxidize properly. Should have stuck with CO for initial removal, and just put up with the itchies I suppose. I initially posted that shampoo does not affect the color, but apparently a strong clarifying shampoo does. First time I had this happen, and I've been a hendigo-head for over a year now.

As for the sodium picrimate, I would be wary of it. I've heard that some hennas contain metallic salts in them and are not good for your hair. And sodium=salt. Does the package warn you against using metal utensils for mixing? That can be a dead giveaway that it has something in it you don't want on your hair. Pure BAQ henna does not have that warning attached to it.

[Veer666]

I have read the same things and have experimented for myself.

Conclusion: it does NOT matter!

I have tried:
- Only co after henna
- Only water after henna
- Shampooing (without sl(e)s) and Conditioner after henna

The last works best to remove the henna from my hair and it does not make any difference in colour. So I keep using shampoo and conditioner to get my henna out and also when I normally wash my hair.

However I have also tried a SLES shampoo and that does seem to fade the henna a bit faster, but only considering the first or second henna application. If you henna more often, than even SLES does not make a difference...at least it did not make a difference in my henna colour...

[Kaelee]

I have had henna in my hair for probably the last three years (I lost track now). Please, for the sake of your hair, throw that henna that you have away!!!! Sodium picramate means it's not pure henna!

I'm not sure what sodium picramate is exactly, but I'm 99% certain it's a metallic salt. The problem with metallic salts in hair dye is that, if you use any other chemical process (dye, perm, bleach, etc) it can melt, burn, turn green, or other things to your hair. So if you've used the stuff already, please do strand test before you do anything else to your hair- You may be fine, you may not, but it's better to melt a few strands than your whole head!

Now that I'm done with the doom and gloom rant:

I shampoo my hair all the time. Every day in fact. I use shampoo (usually two or three goes of shampoo!) while I'm washing my henna out! (it helps to remove the mud). This has never once negatively affected the color, so if you're using true henna and not something else, you'll be fine to shampoo as often, or not, as you like! :) There is very little that can remove henna from hair.

[Veer666]

I have had henna in my hair for probably the last three years (I lost track now). Please, for the sake of your hair, throw that henna that you have away!!!! Sodium picramate means it's not pure henna!

I'm not sure what sodium picramate is exactly, but I'm 99% certain it's a metallic salt. The problem with metallic salts in hair dye is that, if you use any other chemical process (dye, perm, bleach, etc) it can melt, burn, turn green, or other things to your hair. So if you've used the stuff already, please do strand test before you do anything else to your hair- You may be fine, you may not, but it's better to melt a few strands than your whole head!

Now that I'm done with the doom and gloom rant:

I shampoo my hair all the time. Every day in fact. I use shampoo (usually two or three goes of shampoo!) while I'm washing my henna out! (it helps to remove the mud). This has never once negatively affected the color, so if you're using true henna and not something else, you'll be fine to shampoo as often, or not, as you like! :) There is very little that can remove henna from hair.


Sodium picramte does not give you bad results if you chemically dye your hair again or if you did that before!
Sodium picramate is relatively safe. It is used to give immediate dye release and colour bright red.
Sodium picramate is NOT a metallic salt but an acidic salt. sodium salt of picramic acid.
Metallic salts can give these symptoms Kaelee described before, but not sodium picramate.
Unless ofcourse your allergic to it, but you can also be allergic to henna. So always test before use!

I have used henna with sodium picramate before, but I am on BAQ henna now. It is so much better I agree!

[Kaelee]

Good to know Veer66- I wasn't sure about sodium picramate specifically (sodium is a metal, though, and I've read that it IS a metallic salt. However not all metallic salts interact badly with dye!) I've never used it that I know of, so I wasn't sure. I did some more looking around last night and found that others have used it with no ill effects as well.

I've used BAQ for as long as I've used henna, and don't plan on switching, it is good stuff! Your hair is BEAUTIFUL btw.

[little_cherry]

P.S. I would also like to ask what evils Sodium Picramate can do on hair... It seems my henna has the stuff in it, and the only thing I've noticed is that it releases dye extremely fast.
Sodium picramate (aka picramic acid (http://www.chemicalland21.com/specialtychem/perchem/PICRAMIC%20ACID.htm)) is nasssty. It alters the colour of henna to produce other colours. The henna will fade drastically if it contains SP.... When I used to henne brand henna, it trashed my hair-- my hair resembled something that only farm animals would love to munch on. I got splits galore a week after using compound henna.

[Veer666]

Good to know Veer66- I wasn't sure about sodium picramate specifically (sodium is a metal, though, and I've read that it IS a metallic salt. However not all metallic salts interact badly with dye!) I've never used it that I know of, so I wasn't sure. I did some more looking around last night and found that others have used it with no ill effects as well.

I've used BAQ for as long as I've used henna, and don't plan on switching, it is good stuff! Your hair is BEAUTIFUL btw.

Ok then it might be a metal, but not like metallic salt, or if it still is considered a metallic salt it is not a very bad one (not like the ones we hear the horror stories from). I've also read that it is mistakenly classified as metallic salt, but I could be wrong.

If you have a choice, choose the BAQ henna! It is always better for your hair!

I agree sodium picramate is not good for your hair, but it is also not as bad as some people say it is...

My hair also is more shiny after BAQ henna than after SP henna. Dye release is faster, but colourwise it didn't really make a difference for me.
SP henna did fade faster indeed

[Veer666]

Ok I've did some searching and in essence sodium picamate could be classified as metallic salt.

But i've also found the ones that could be harmful, so these are the ones you should really be looking out for:

Ferric chloride, Ferric sulphate, aluminium chloride


Metallic salt is even a byproduct of the use of sodium bicarbonate, which you could ingest in case of heartburn to neutralize the acid.

[redhead2011]

Ah yes, it was me who recently had the shampoo-henna incident. I decided to slop the sudsy mess on my head anyway (I had clarified earlier in the day). Aside from smelling bizarre and the mud washing out in bubbles, I've seen no difference in color, immediate fading, stain, etc. It's only been a few days so if something weird happens down the line, I'll be sure to come back and report.

As for the washing. I find that I put my hair up for the first few days while the henna completely oxidizes. I tend to look pretty orange for 2-3 days before it settles down. By day 3 I'm ready to wash with a shampoo bar. I've never noticed any problems. A final note: I find that CO is not good for me as a normal routine, but is fine for getting the henna out (assuming I don't mix it with shampoo!).

********
sorry if this is common knowledge here, but what is "CO"????

[little_cherry]

CO is conditioner only. Check out the articles section, there's plenty of information.

Personally, I wouldn't use something that is used as an explosive on my hair. I used SP once and it trashed my hair. Apparently, doses must my exceed 0.1...but how does one know how much is in the adulterated henna?

[Veer666]

CO is conditioner only. Check out the articles section, there's plenty of information.

Personally, I wouldn't use something that is used as an explosive on my hair. I used SP once and it trashed my hair. Apparently, doses must my exceed 0.1...but how does one know how much is in the adulterated henna?

Picric acid is used as an explosive, picramic acid is not.
However picric acid is chemically altered to form picramic acid. Mostly by sodium sulfide (not sulfate).

I love more natural products, so I wouldn't use this anymore. However this is still not as bad as most chemical dyes.

[FluffSpider]

WOW! thank you kindly for all your answers!
My henna does contain sodium picramate along with the herb, no other metallic salts. I live in Romania and can't really afford buying henna from the US or UK. My first box of 'henna' was a dark chestnut colour(I know it's not actual henna). It gave me beautiful shine but the pigment was...meh. Properly prepared, 2h+on my head and all I got was almost-nothing. Then I decided to mix the chestnut thingie with henna from Henne-the Auburn shade, which had a WAY more powerful stain and resulted in an orange flame-carrot colour on my head...sigh. should've known better
I did the developer over hennaed strands, and they were just dandy. I used the liquid part of the bleach kit, 12%, so hardcore-ish stuff.
GRAND idea to do a CO on 4or 5 then wash on 7! I'll do that from now on, as I've noticed my henna does fade quite a bit, but after some SLES or ALES it gets flaming again.when it's dirty, it's muddy carrot
I have noticed that my hair isn't as shiny from the picramate-y henna as it was from the 'chestnut henna'-that one had NO ingredients listed at all. In Romania, I can find lush henna(150-some km from home!), the no-name brand with the chestnut, which is 'imported from Iran" as they are kind enough to mention, and this Auburn thingie(available in more shades. the Copper shade is seemingly 100% pure henna, but... Copper? I don't want copper. I want chestnut-y red. or plain red. )

[Paula Auguste]

I wanna second veer666. Sodium picramatate is NOT a metallic salt just like Sodium chloride (Tablesalt) is not a metallic salt. (Metall and alkali metall is not the same)

Metallic salts used in compound henna are: lead acetate, silver nitrate, copper, nickel, cobalt, bismuth and iron salts. They are also used in some products for reversing grey hair in men.

That said, while Henna with Sodium Picramate is not pure BAQ, it is also not damaging. I used it for a long time and always was happy with the results. It gives a lovely burgundy shade at the first application, because it enhances the color. It does NOT interfer with bleach and chemical dyes like metallic salts do. I switched a lot between henna and chemical dye during this time.

As for your original problem: I always shampooed after hennaing and did not perceive any fading. But that was me, others could be different.

[FluffSpider]

Thank you! This was very calming, after I did the first SP henna application I noticed the small ingredient list on the bottom of the box and literally freaked out.Knowing that SP is related to explosives did little to ease my guilty conscience( SO said he would bring a box of matches next time he saw me, to test that:D).