Transitioning from Logona Herbal Colours to BAQ Henna/Cassia

[mneh]

Hello LHC Folks

I would appreciate any advice you could give me on switching from using Logona herbal hair colours to using pure Henna.

Before using Logona hair colours I had my hair coloured by my hairdresser every 6 weeks and she used copper demi-colour. The copper colour would fade over time but never fully leave my hair so it acted a bit like a permanent colour. I had bad scalp reactions to the demi-colours so I started using Logona herbal colours in May of 2010: they contain various proportions of natural ingredients. Quote from Logona website:
LOGONA Herbal Hair Color Powders are mixtures of 100% natural, botanical colorants, enriched with conditioning wheat protein and jojoba oil. The colorants include certified organically grown henna, walnut shells, buckthorn, cassia, indigo, hibiscus, rhatany, coffee, rhubarb, curcuma, and beetroot. The conditioners are powdered wheat protein and jojoba. Additionally, the products contain a bit of algin to improve the texture of the color mixture, and essential oils to improve the fragrance.

Currently I use a mix of 50% Logona Flame Red and 50% Logona Henna Red. On the whole, I like the hair colour I'm achieving, it blended in well with my previously demi-coloured hair, and it leaves my hair in good condition without any scalp or skin irritations. I've been repeatedly taken for a natural red head, which is just what I want :) However, I'm considering changing to using pure Henna and Cassia because I've read on LHC that some of the ingredients in Logona colours might possibly be toxic e.g. walnut shells. I am trying to make my hair and body care as natural and non-toxic as I can, hence my consideration of moving to BAQ Henna.

If I do move to Henna, I'm thinking I should try 60% Cassia + 30% Henna, as I want coppery red hair. My natural hair colour is described by my hairdresser as dark blonde with light brown and touches of red (although as I'm getting older I'm finding more white hairs than I would like lol).

Neurotic Bit: I am considering an entire-head application of Henna for my first application as I want an overall blended colour. I would be nervous about transitioning by using roots-only applications because, in my innocence when I started using Logona herbal colours, I did entire-head applications each time my roots grew out instead of doing just root touch ups and I think this has made my length go a much stronger red colour, (which I like but I wouldn't want to go any darker than this) in addition, my length still has some of the synthetic demi-colour on it.

In changing to pure Henna, I want to minimise colour mismatches on my hair. LHC reading has taught me that once I Henna my hair, I need only do root touch-ups afterwards to maintain the colour and prevent darkening.

The specific things that I'd love advice on are these:

Has anyone else transitioned from Logona herbal colours to pure Henna? Did you learn anything that you would like to pass on?

If I do move to using Henna/Cassia, might beginning with root touch-ups cause 2-tone hair or is Henna forgiving in this matter? Any advice for matching existing colour and for application techniques to minimise demarcation would be great.

If I do an entire-head application of Henna/Cassia on already Logona-coloured hair, will I end up with a darker colour in the length? Can anyone suggest a Henna/Cassia mix, or application technique, to minimise darkening on the lengths?

I have coarse, wavy/wurly hair and don't brush or comb it, except in the shower, so I have no hair strands or hair balls with which to do strand tests :( Advice from fellow wavies and curlies on how to accumulate hair for strand tests would also be gratefully received :)


For reference purposes, here are some examples of my hair colour at the moment. It can looks a bit blonde-toned or red depending on the light:
http://hotimg23.fotki.com/a/86_31/215_152/IMG_2163386.jpg (http://hotimg23.fotki.com/p/a/86_31/215_152/IMG_2163386.jpg) http://hotimg23.fotki.com/a/86_31/215_152/IMG_2168254.jpg (http://hotimg23.fotki.com/p/a/86_31/215_152/IMG_2168254.jpg)

Here are some attempts to show the difference in colour between the ends of my hair and my roots (I haven't coloured my hair since Sept):

http://hotimg23.fotki.com/a/86_31/215_152/IMG_2275685.jpg (http://hotimg23.fotki.com/p/a/86_31/215_152/IMG_2275685.jpg) http://hotimg23.fotki.com/a/86_31/215_152/IMG_2295.jpg (http://hotimg23.fotki.com/p/a/86_31/215_152/IMG_2295.jpg) http://hotimg23.fotki.com/a/86_31/215_152/IMG_2281.jpg (http://hotimg23.fotki.com/p/a/86_31/215_152/IMG_2281.jpg)

I hope I'm adequately explaining what my concerns are, what I'd like to achieve, as well as the advice that I would like to receive. If I'm not making myself clear, apologies in advance.

[NouvelleNymphe2]

Hello. Though I am not experienced enough to give you Henna nor Logona advice, I would just like to add to this thread in hopes of finding some answers of my own. Recently, I found a link directing me to Madeleine's Twisted Pages, which are wonderful and chalked full of Long and Fine hair care information. As well as many links to online hair toy boutiques. Madeleine recommends a German brand mixed henna that states it is uses 100% pure ingredients in their henna mix powders. They offer a variety of different mixes that produce different colors (much like the different browns, reds, or dark browns pre-mixed by Lush). The German site offers a version in English, French, and Spanish. The English version being more comprehensive than the French version of the site. Here is the site: http://www.logona.com/PHF/PHF_E/index.html.

I also found that you can purchase these products on www.amazon.com, www.amazon.fr, and also an online boutique in the U.S. http://www.logona-usa.com/herbalhair-powders35.cfm.

I am interested in finding out what ingredients are actually, or are potentially toxic to users of these mixes? Also, is there anyone with experience using Logona? And lastly, Mneh, is there a reason (beyond reading there could be toxic ingredients) why you would like to stop using this product? Have you found it damaging to your hair? TIA :)

ETA: Just wanted to add an excerpt from Logona's website:

Natural ingredients
LOGONA Herbal Hair Colors contain only 100% natural coloring and conditioning ingredients. The colorants used include certified organically grown henna, cassia, walnut, buckthorn, indigo, hibiscus, rhubarb, rhatany, coffee, curcuma, and beetroot. We grind these ingredients to a very fine consistency, and then mix in powdered wheat protein and jojoba for added conditioning benefits. We also add a bit of algin to improve the texture of the color mixture, and some essential oils to improve the fragrance.

+ LOGONA Herbal Hair Colors color your hair gently and long lasting.
+ Independent labs test each hair color batch for residues of agricultural chemicals and heavy metal concentrations.
– LOGONA hair colors do not attack the hair structure, as do permanent hair colors.
– LOGONA hair colors are completely free of synthetic colorants, fragrances, preservatives, and aggressive ingredients.

Also, the French page calls their colors semi-permanent stating they wash out in 6-8 weeks.

Here are the specific ingredients I found for these Logona color products:

Logona Herbal Hair Colors
sahara, golden blonde, henna red, flame red, mahogony, walnut red-brown, chestnut brown, natural brown, brown umber, henna black

Algin, Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein, Jojoba Oil, Essential Oils, [ +/-Henna, Cassia, Buckthorn, Walnut Shells, Indigo Tinctoria, Indigo Argentea, Hibiscus, Rhubarb, Rhatany, Coffee, Turmeric, Beetroot]

INCI: Algin, Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein, Buxus Chinensis, Parfum [+/- Lawsonia Inermis, Cassia Auriculata, Ramnus Frangula, Juglans Regia, Indigofera Tinctoria, Indigofera Argentea, Hibiscus Sabdariffa, Rheum Undulatum, Krameria Trianda, Coffea Arabica, Curcuma Longa, Beta Vulgaris]


I highlighted the walnut shells or "Juglans Regia" because it seems this might be a toxic ingredient. But the information I have read so far is inconclusive. :(

ETA: Here is a thread regarding Logona. The information is positive and then scary. http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=23838&highlight=Logona+Toxic&page=2

[mneh]

Hello. Though I am not experienced enough to give you Henna nor Logona advice, I would just like to add to this thread in hopes of finding some answers of my own. Recently, I found a link directing me to Madeleine's Twisted Pages, which are wonderful and chalked full of Long and Fine hair care information. As well as many links to online hair toy boutiques. Madeleine recommends a German brand mixed henna that states it is uses 100% pure ingredients in their henna mix powders. They offer a variety of different mixes that produce different colors (much like the different browns, reds, or dark browns pre-mixed by Lush). The German site offers a version in English, French, and Spanish. The English version being more comprehensive than the French version of the site. Here is the site: http://www.logona.com/PHF/PHF_E/index.html.

I also found that you can purchase these products on www.amazon.com, www.amazon.fr, and also an online boutique in the U.S. http://www.logona-usa.com/herbalhair-powders35.cfm.

I am interested in finding out what ingredients are actually, or are potentially toxic to users of these mixes? Also, is there anyone with experience using Logona? And lastly, Mneh, is there a reason (beyond reading there could be toxic ingredients) why you would like to stop using this product? Have you found it damaging to your hair? TIA :)

ETA: Just wanted to add an excerpt from Logona's website:

Natural ingredients
LOGONA Herbal Hair Colors contain only 100% natural coloring and conditioning ingredients. The colorants used include certified organically grown henna, cassia, walnut, buckthorn, indigo, hibiscus, rhubarb, rhatany, coffee, curcuma, and beetroot. We grind these ingredients to a very fine consistency, and then mix in powdered wheat protein and jojoba for added conditioning benefits. We also add a bit of algin to improve the texture of the color mixture, and some essential oils to improve the fragrance.

+ LOGONA Herbal Hair Colors color your hair gently and long lasting.
+ Independent labs test each hair color batch for residues of agricultural chemicals and heavy metal concentrations.
– LOGONA hair colors do not attack the hair structure, as do permanent hair colors.
– LOGONA hair colors are completely free of synthetic colorants, fragrances, preservatives, and aggressive ingredients.

Also, the French page calls their colors semi-permanent stating they wash out in 6-8 weeks.

Here are the specific ingredients I found for these Logona color products:

Logona Herbal Hair Colors
sahara, golden blonde, henna red, flame red, mahogony, walnut red-brown, chestnut brown, natural brown, brown umber, henna black

Algin, Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein, Jojoba Oil, Essential Oils, [ +/-Henna, Cassia, Buckthorn, Walnut Shells, Indigo Tinctoria, Indigo Argentea, Hibiscus, Rhubarb, Rhatany, Coffee, Turmeric, Beetroot]

INCI: Algin, Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein, Buxus Chinensis, Parfum [+/- Lawsonia Inermis, Cassia Auriculata, Ramnus Frangula, Juglans Regia, Indigofera Tinctoria, Indigofera Argentea, Hibiscus Sabdariffa, Rheum Undulatum, Krameria Trianda, Coffea Arabica, Curcuma Longa, Beta Vulgaris]


I highlighted the walnut shells or "Juglans Regia" because it seems this might be a toxic ingredient. But the information I have read so far is inconclusive. :(

ETA: Here is a thread regarding Logona. The information is positive and then scary. http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=23838&highlight=Logona+Toxic&page=2

Hello NouvelleNymphe2, thanks for posting a response to my query :)

I've been using Logona henna colours for a year now: I began with the pre-mixed colours and then moved on to using the powdered colours. I prefer the powdered hair dyes because they give a stronger coverage on my grey hairs. I would say that the effect from the Logona powdered hair colours is permanent and does not wash out, nor does it fade very much between colouring sessions. The pre-mixed colours are not as strong and will fade slightly but they do not wash out either. I have found that using the Logona hair dyes has improved the condition of my hair.

My sole reason for considering a transition to using straight henna + cassia is that I read Ktani's warning that juglans regla is toxic and this made me feel a little concerned.

The reason I wanted advice on how to transition from Logona henna to straight henna is that I want to ensure my colour does not go darker. The great thing about Logona henna colours is that they do not darken my hair with repeated use and I always get the same colour each time; these are things I am not sure would be as easy to achieve with making my own mix of straight henna + cassia. Also, the Logona powdered hair colours are very easy to mix and apply and come from a reputable company, this might not be easily achievable if I seek to purchase straight henna + cassia. Also, I wonder is henna + cassia any less toxic? The reason I wonder is because my GP is very anti-henna because he has seen people made very ill by henna e.g. they have a tattoo done whilst on holiday.

As you can see, I have mixed thoughts on the issue of transitioning :) I like colouring my hair and I want to do it as naturally as possible and I'd also like to be as safe as possible: I chose Logona herbal colours because I they were safer than synthetic hair dyes but I also have some concerns regarding one of the ingredients.

I've checked in the Skin Deep cosmetic safety guide and it lists the hazard for juglans regia (in lots of forms) as 0 or 1 = low: http://www.cosmeticsdatabase.com/wordsearch.php?query=juglans+regia

And PubMed has articles showing walnut shells can help against cancer cells: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19883717

I don't have a scientific background so a lot of this information confuses me; it seems like so many things have mutagenic properties yet they are still used in cosmetics and personal care products.

[NouvelleNymphe2]

Hello Mneh :). Thank you so much for your detailed response. I too like to color my hair because it gives it a little vibrancy! Especially in the winter months because my naturally golden brown hair has lots of highlights in the summer and in the winter it is more an ashy light-medium brown color with fewer light pieces. I have recently been experimenting with Henna and Cassia glosses.

Now, I'm not the most experienced henna head. I have only done 2 rather henna weak/diluted glosses and 3 full cassia treatments. I purchased the henna and cassia from www.hennasooq.com. I loved the results, but my glosses faded quickly and are almost completely gone at present (which I actually like since I am still in the experimenting phase). I also found the quality of the herbs from the HennaSooq to be high. They guarantee that their henna is BAQ and their Cassia is stamped/certified "organic." They ship internationally, and are offer reasonable prices. Perhaps check out the Hennasooq Blogspot for mix ideas. Also, I would suggest looking at the www.hennaforhair.com website. There are tons of sample mixes and hair results examples. They show you the wide array of ingredients people try. Also, I remember reading about Hibiscus Petal Powder to enhance reds. You can read about this on the HennaSooq's website.

Since you are looking for a vibrant red I think that you could probably, with a bit of research and testing, find a really nice mostly BAQ henna mix. The only thing I found to be slightly negative was that my hair feels dry after hennaing. Also, I have read that you shouldn't wash for several days (during the oxidation process) and if you flat iron this could actually darken the vibrant henna during oxidation as well. So you want to avoid those two things after an application. To avoid the dryness I will NOT use lemon juice or acid next time, and might add a bit of my favorite oil, or perhaps Camelia oil.

I understand your concern for darkening your henna, which WILL happen with layered on/repeated usage. I have read that henna certainly builds up. However a lot of gals seem to do well with root only applications once they find their desired mix and color. They part their hair in sections and apply their ideal mix with a cheap plastic squeeze bottle to the different parted sections. After they use they hands (covered in gloves) and massage the mix into their hair. This ends up covering all of the roots if you part your hair in several sections, and I have read that it isn't that difficult. Perhaps do a search for "root application" or "how roots only." If this sounds doable for you, then maybe you could give it a try.

This is all I remember at present. Check out those websites, they will give you some ideas. If I remember anything else I will check back in and provide that information as well. Regarding Logona products, I think everyone needs to be responsible for choosing to use or not to use a particular product. From what I have read I am going to take into consideration the frequency with which I will use the product, the amount of walnut shells in the product (it's not straight walnut shell dye by any means), and the low rating walnut dye straight has.

I think that because I will mostly use this product during the winter months, and no more than once a month during those months I will not experience a level of toxicity higher than what I already most likely injest on a monthly basis. I guess what I mean is that there are lots of foods, veggies, fruits that I eat that might have traces of leftover pesticides (a level of toxicity) or junk food that is terrible for me. I can never be 100% certain of everything I eat and every cosmetic I put on my skin. My knowledge of these ingredients is just not that profound. So I purchased some of the Logona powder to try, and will use it infrequently. Like this I think I will avoid overkill or potential toxicity. If anyone else wishes to speak up, please feel free :)....