How does the whole Contacts & Friends thing work?

Contacts - This is how permissions are assigned, someone is either on or off your Contacts list. People do not know if they are on or off your Contact list, it is an asymmetrical one-way arrangement.

Friends - This causes people to show up on your Profile as listed Friends. No special permissions are granted by having a mutual Friendship with someone. Friendship is a mutual two-way arrangement.


So, what happens when you...

...Add a Contact?
The other person does not receive any notification that they have been added to your Contacts list. They will now see any resources (Photo Album/Blog) that you have designated as Contacts Only/Private.

...Remove a Contact?
The other person does not receive any notification that they have been removed from your Contacts list. They will no longer be able to see any resources (Photo Album/Blog) that you have designated as Contacts Only/Private.

...Request Friendship?
The other person receives a "Friend Request" notification, which they can either Accept or Reject.

...Accept a Friend Request?
The requestor will see your status change from "Friendship Requested" on their Contacts list to "Friend" with the box checked. You will now both appear on eachother's Profile as Friends.

...Reject a Friend Request?
The requesting person will not hear anything back from their Friend Request. You will still show up with status of "Friendship Requested" on their Contacts list. The requesting person cannot "withdraw" their pending Friend Request without removing you from their contacts and adding you again.

...Reject a Friend Request, and then change my mind and decide to Befriend that person later?
If the pending Friend Request was never removed, you will now be Friends with the person. They will not get an active notification but they will see the "Friendship Requested" change to "Friend" with the checkbox. If the Friend Request was cancelled by the requestor removing and readding you to their Contact list, they will just get a brand new Friend Request from you.

...Break a Friendship?
The ex-friend will not be actively notified of this change, but if they look at their Contact list the "Friend" box will be unchecked. You will no longer appear as Friends on eachother's Profile.


Hope this helps! Feel free to ask more questions and I will update this initial post with new relevant information. :)

Thank you, Diane!

Excellent explanation, with seemingly every permutation covered.

But what happens when one of my contacts and one of my friends begin a relationship? What if they start befriending others without my being aware of it? What if I suddenly see baby LHCers populating my friends list? Who bears the responsibility for birth control?

Thanks for the detailed explanation! But I still have a silly, nitpicky little question ;) What if you and another person mutually add each other as a Contact, but neither of you sends a friend request? Do you become Friends? The only difference I see between Contacts and Friends is mutuality, which is why I ask.

Um, I have a question.

If you set your blog to private/contacts only, can your friends see it? Or do you have to add everyone to your contacts list?

Thanks for the explanation!

It still seems very odd to me - and the various "friend requests" are jarring - from how it is described, I take it that one can expect dozens or more as things start to organize themselves around here? (Particularly if one makes one's blog "Contacts only"?)

If you set your blog to private/contacts only, can your friends see it? Or do you have to add everyone to your contacts list?

If someone is your friend, she is also your contact. They aren't really separate things. (But if someone is your contact, she isn't necessarily your friend.)

So if I understand it right you don't get access to photo journals anymore after 100 posts and 60 days of activity? :cry::cry:

Where can I restart my hair journal?

So if I understand it right you don't get access to photo journals anymore after 100 posts and 60 days of activity? :cry::cry:

Where can I restart my hair journal?
Hair journals are now "Blogs", located at the top of your screen. :)

But what happens when one of my contacts and one of my friends begin a relationship? What if they start befriending others without my being aware of it? What if I suddenly see baby LHCers populating my friends list? Who bears the responsibility for birth control?
Well, since trolleypup and I are both childfree by choice, I don't know if we'll ever know. We should check with Bill D. & the Countess... Heehee! :p

Thanks for the detailed explanation! But I still have a silly, nitpicky little question ;) What if you and another person mutually add each other as a Contact, but neither of you sends a friend request? Do you become Friends? The only difference I see between Contacts and Friends is mutuality, which is why I ask.
People who both list eachother as contacts do not become friends. Unless they discuss it separately, they won't know that each is the other's contact. I suppose you could say that friends are consensually and consciously mutual. ;)

So if I understand it right you don't get access to photo journals anymore after 100 posts and 60 days of activity? :cry::cry:

Where can I restart my hair journal?
Photo albums and blogs defined as "Public" are available to 25+ post members. Photo albums and blogs defined as "Private/Contacts Only" are only available to the owner's Contacts. The 100-posts/60-days only applies to a few remaining areas like the Community Meets forum.

Click on the Blogs link to restart your hair journal.

The 100-posts/60-days only applies to a few remaining areas like the Community Meets forum.


Sorry to go off topic for a moment, but I've been searching high and low for the Community Meets forum and can't find it anywhere. Any pointers would be appreciated. This is where I would post about a local meet, right? Thanks in advance. :)
/hijack

It's currently only viewable by modmins. They say it will be visible by members soon. :)

Thanks Snowbear. :D

People who both list each other as contacts do not become friends. Unless they discuss it separately, they won't know that each is the other's contact. I suppose you could say that friends are consensually and consciously mutual. ;)

Aww... that's kind of sad. You could want to be friends and never know...

Aww... that's kind of sad. You could want to be friends and never know...

That's why I'd say it doesn't hurt to do the full friend request rather than just add as a contact. I wish we could send a message with it though (okay, I could do the PM work as a follow up) since it is nice to let people know why I asked them if they don't know of me. Pretty much I'm using that friend panel to remind myself to visit blogs or look for posts by people I like because we've met in person, swapped, I love their posts or opinions, we have similar tastes, I think they are neat, know them from another site, or a bunch other other reasons I haven't even thought of yet. Besides, seeing all the avatar photos on the friend/contact panel makes me think of it as one giant meet.

What I don't want is people being uncomfortable if they choose not to accept me as a contact or friend because we all have different ways we are using the friend lists. I'm just throwing it out there and there will be no hurt feelings on my side. I also want to write that people shouldn't be shy about asking me, I'm happy to share any private content (not that there is any yet) with LHC regulars.

Elizabeth

Thanks Dianyla for explaining.

Whew!! Thanks for the explanations, Dianyla. One question keeps popping into my head. At my advance age, sometimes my memory is a little sucky. If I try and send a friend request to someone who is already my friend, will a notice pop up or something?

Whew!! Thanks for the explanations, Dianyla. One question keeps popping into my head. At my advance age, sometimes my memory is a little sucky. If I try and send a friend request to someone who is already my friend, will a notice pop up or something?Why not try it and let us know? You can try me. ;)

Why not try it and let us know? You can try me. ;)



You're so smart, PatGear!!!! I went to your profile and lo and behold, there is no "Befriend PatGear" under your friends list. I tried out a couple of other friends, and that Befriend button is absent. So, if there's a Befriend spot, then you haven't befriended that person yet.


ETA: PatGear, your hair has gotten so long!!!!!

PatGear, I was bored so I tried it too. :P I clicked on your name in the post above, then clicked on Add PatGear to Contacts--it informed me that you and I are already friends. So, it seems like either the way Xandergrammy did it or the way I did it, you can't send duplicate friend requests.

ETA: Okay, I'm *really* bored, so I clicked on my own name and there was an "Add Talullah to your contacts" thing. So I clicked on it, and it asked me if I wanted to add Talullah to my contacts--NOT the same message I got when I tried to add you again! So I guess we're not friends with ourselves by default. :P

ETA: Okay, I'm *really* bored, so I clicked on my own name and there was an "Add Talullah to your contacts" thing. So I clicked on it, and it asked me if I wanted to add Talullah to my contacts--NOT the same message I got when I tried to add you again! So I guess we're not friends with ourselves by default. :PSo did you go through with it? If you also check the box to request friendship, will you get a request and everything? That's funny! :lol: What if you break up with yourself, will you still be able to see your own blog? Oh, the possibilities! :D

So did you go through with it? If you also check the box to request friendship, will you get a request and everything? That's funny! :lol: What if you break up with yourself, will you still be able to see your own blog? Oh, the possibilities! :D

Sorry, I didn't see this until today!

Well, I added myself to my contacts today, and clicked the "send friendship request" box-- it said "You can't be friends with yourself"!! LOL! I am so easily amused.

Thank you for your excellent explanation, Dianyla! I thought the way to tell if your friendship request had been rejected was when the tickmark by "friend" was missing, and it no longer showed, "friendship requested"?

However, I am now wondering if the example I noticed on my profile page where the tickmark by "friend" disappeared meant that that person had actually accepted my request earlier on, then broke it later? It is SO hard to keep track of everything! It would be good to know.

Thank you in advnace, for clarification on this.

However, I am now wondering if the example I noticed on my profile page where the tickmark by "friend" disappeared meant that that person had actually accepted my request earlier on, then broke it later? It is SO hard to keep track of everything! It would be good to know.Yes, that's what it means. It doesn't necessarily mean that you're not still on their contact list, though.

The only way to know whether you are a "contact" or not is if they have a private blog and you can't get in, then you know you aren't. If you can get in, then maybe you're a contact, or maybe the blog is public....you don't know unless they mention in their blog that it's private!

As for photo albums. If it's private and you don't have access, you won't even see it listed at all so you wouldn't know whether or not you have access. That's another reason the whole "contact but not friend" thing is so confusing. :confused:


tallulah, that's a hoot! "You can't be friends with yourself":lol:

...What I don't want is people being uncomfortable if they choose not to accept me as a contact or friend because we all have different ways we are using the friend lists. I'm just throwing it out there and there will be no hurt feelings on my side. I also want to write that people shouldn't be shy about asking me, I'm happy to share any private content (not that there is any yet) with LHC regulars.

Elizabeth

I agree. 'Friend' is such a loaded word, but in this context it doesn't mean quite as much as it would otherwise.

I don't have a blog yet, but I think once we can access our old journals again (in whatever form that happens), I'll maybe use that old information as a reference point, just so people with a similar hairtype can read it, or not, as they choose.

I've made the effort to reach out to others and 'befriend' them, mostly based on total number of posts, hairtype and generally positive interactions elsewhere on the forum.

The memberlist is so huge that I think it would be hard to befriend everyone, so I do hope that people will feel comfortable enough just to ask for access should I ever make a blog with limited access.

Well, I tried to respond to Elizabeth's Friend Request, but I can't see that anything changed, I still have it "pending" so I guess I dithered around too long or did something wrong. Bummer.

But thanks anyway, Elizabeth. I appreciate the offer, even if I'm unable to make it happen.

ETA: Whee! I finally got it! I did not see the little place to put the check mark in Elizabeth's pic, so I had not clicked it! :) It was a white box on a white background for me and was invisible! I only realized it was there when I got a second, different request, with a different piccy of course!

Oh, Dianyla, thank you!

I thought I was going to have to send someone a pm asking
if I could unfriend them as a test. LOL.

Jeez, would that be an insult?

Pardon me, but would you mind if I didn't have you as a friend
for a few minutes? Just an experiment, you see. :p

KM

Yes, that's what it means. It doesn't necessarily mean that you're not still on their contact list, though.

The only way to know whether you are a "contact" or not is if they have a private blog and you can't get in, then you know you aren't. If you can get in, then maybe you're a contact, or maybe the blog is public....you don't know unless they mention in their blog that it's private!

As for photo albums. If it's private and you don't have access, you won't even see it listed at all so you wouldn't know whether or not you have access. That's another reason the whole "contact but not friend" thing is so confusing. :confused:


tallulah, that's a hoot! "You can't be friends with yourself":lol:

Actually, PatGear, I was like you, and when I saw the box unticked, my first thought was that I might have accientally unticked it. Fortunately, I did not send a second friendship request out, once I had a better understanding of what the unticked box meant. Also, the person in question did remove me from her contacts, since I no longer have access to her blog.

Also, my understanding is that if the "friendship requested" box is still ticked means that it is entirely possible your friendship request may not actually have been rejected yet, if the person has been offline. I know of several in mine that changed to "friend"when the person came back online, but there are still a number of others outstanding.

If someone sends you a friendship request and you put them down as a contact instead, will that person know?

If someone sends you a friendship request and you put them down as a contact instead, will that person know?


Well, they'll know you didn't accept the friend request when you don't show up on their friends list.

They'll only know that you made them a contact instead if they realize that they can see your private blog/album, if you've made it private. And if they know you've made it private.

Talullah, thanks for explaining.

I don't want to seem like a nitpicker, but if I don't know the person and I've never interacted with them I'd really like it if at least they visited my profile page before requesting friendship. I won't reject anyone but "friends" for me is when I know that person, at least a little bit. Otherwise I'll put them on the "contacts" list.

Talullah, thanks for explaining.

I don't want to seem like a nitpicker, but if I don't know the person and I've never interacted with them I'd really like it if at least they visited my profile page before requesting friendship. I won't reject anyone but "friends" for me is when I know that person, at least a little bit. Otherwise I'll put them on the "contacts" list.


That is what I like to do, Amoretti, before requesting a friendship from someone who may either not know or remember me. If they respond, and it appears they are interested in being on my list, I will submit a request then. Sometimes, the mere act of posting on their page brings about a request from them, which I always accept gratefully, and then I post again on their page, thanking them. If they ignore the post I make on their page, I generally don't bother to submit a request, since it would appear from that type of reaction that they would rather not interact with me. I fully realize that I may not be everyone's cup of tea.

Ok, here is my question, but I may be reading this all wrong because it makes no sense to me.

There are 3 people here, A, B and C. I send a friend request to A and B, they accept, and are now on my friends list. They can see my private blog. C sends me a friend request, and because I don't know C all that well, I don't want C to see my private blog, there is nothing I can do but not accept the request? If I put C on the contacts list, C will have access to everything same as A and B, but just won't be on the friends page.

So what is the point of the contact list? If friends have the same permissions as contacts, why use the contact list? Would I use it if for some reason I didn't want people to know that I was letting person D read my stuff, so D wouldn't show up on my friends list? Or would it be for the case where D rejected my friend request, but for some really odd reason I want D to still have access, so I put D on the contact list, since D gets no say on that part?

I guess in my mind I'd like to be able to accept all friend requests and get to know people better, and have only the people also on my contact list see my private blog. If it doesn't work that way, that's fine, I'm just not seeing why there are two lists. :confused:

Those are very good questions, Beldaran. In fact, I now have nobody on my contact list and everybody on my friends one. It seems pointless to have 2 lists with the same access.

It seems some people are using contact list to say "I trust this person enough to let him/her see my private stuff, but not enough to publicly endorse him/her". The problem is that the contact list is secret, even to the person on the list! So that just creates a lot of confusion. Maybe if you do that, you might want to PM or leave a visitor message telling the person they are on the contact list. For me, that's way too much work, that's why I'm operating under the "friends only, no contact" rule.

Also, my understanding is that if the "friendship requested" box is still ticked means that it is entirely possible your friendship request may not actually have been rejected yet, if the person has been offline. I know of several in mine that changed to "friend"when the person came back online, but there are still a number of others outstanding.That's true. But if you've been seeing the person posting on various forums on LHC for a week, you sort of know! :lol:

Those are very good questions, Beldaran. In fact, I now have nobody on my contact list and everybody on my friends one. It seems pointless to have 2 lists with the same access.
I'm the same I have no one on my contact list and don't see it ever being used it seems pretty useless at least to me. :shrug:
It seems like having an invisible friend and I would rather they know:)

I think if someone is a friend.. they are a friend AND a contact.. but a contact can only be a friend if you add them to the friends list as well.

Sounds like one of those awful math problems...

"Some contacts are friends. All friends are contacts.. blah blah blah"... LOL

I see very little point in the Contact list either. Mine is empty - everyone is put onto my Friends list.

I don't really see having accepted someone as a "friend" to be any kind of a public endorsement. We're all members here and we all understand that our "friends" range from people on this board that we have truly befriended and know IRL, to people who's posts we simply enjoy and hope to get to know better some day. We all understand that "friends" is about having journal and photo access, not a public endorsement of someone. At least that's how I view it. I would never accept someone simply because someone I know and trust accepted that person, etc., if I don't know them.

I don't really see having accepted someone as a "friend" to be any kind of a public endorsement. I don't think of it that way either, but from various members' posts here and there, I have noticed some that seem to do so.

So what is the point of the contact list? If friends have the same permissions as contacts, why use the contact list? Would I use it if for some reason I didn't want people to know that I was letting person D read my stuff, so D wouldn't show up on my friends list? Or would it be for the case where D rejected my friend request, but for some really odd reason I want D to still have access, so I put D on the contact list, since D gets no say on that part?

I guess in my mind I'd like to be able to accept all friend requests and get to know people better, and have only the people also on my contact list see my private blog. If it doesn't work that way, that's fine, I'm just not seeing why there are two lists. :confused:

Well, I find the "contacts" list useful precisely because it doesn't publicly identify people as my "friend."

"Friend" is a word that means something to me. I doubt I've had more than a couple dozen people (not online) I'd call "friend" over my entire life, and probably no more than a couple dozen online, beyond that. (And not all on LHC)

To put someone on my friends list whom I don't really know (yet) would be lying, and lying about something I consider important. I won't do it. (If it wasn't a public list, I could see using it as a way just to let people see my blog. But it is a public list, which makes it an affermative, public statement that "this person is my friend.")

I don't mind people who are reasonably well established here reading my journal, and I use the contacts list for that.

But no one has a right to be called a "friend." It's a position that is earned, not a position that one holds by default. And I'm not going to debase the word by using it incorrectly, or insult those I consider to be my "friend" by putting them in the same category as someone who I don't know at all. (No, they might not feel insulted. But I would feel as if I was downplaying what they mean to me, and will not do that.)

I might make my blog private at some point (no intent to do so, for now, so no need to ask to be on my contacts list.) But if letting someone see my blog meant that I had to publicly identify them as "friend" a lot of people whom I might not mind reading my blog would not be reading it.

If anything, I'd rather just have "contacts" which no one can see, with perhaps the ability to see if you are on someone's contacts list when looking at their profile, (so you know you don't have to ask) but not info about who else is on the list. Forget about publicly identifying your "friends." But if publicly identifying friends must be done, then I will do it truthfully.

(That is also why it may take several days for me to respond to a friends request - I have to think about it carefully. Is someone put on my friends list? Very probably not. Is that person made a contact? Probably yes.)

I wonder about the people who have dozens and dozens of people on their friends list. Do they really have so many friends? Does the idea of friend mean so little that they'll use it for anyone? I know for some "friend" means something different in an online group than it does in real life. But I can't handle that distinction, emotionally.

If I were to make my journal private, I might well take a day and go down the members list, adding people to my contact list if I recognize the name and don't mind them reading - even if I don't consider them "friend." Not as a way of singling them out, but as a matter of online housekeeping. (That is, I'd consider someone else to "contacts" if they asked, even if I didn't add them when doing this task.) But I wouldn't want to be notified by everyone who just decided "hey, I don't mind Ursula reading my blog" because that might well mean a lot of energy spent on rather fleeting interaction. And I'm not sure that I'd want to have to initiate communication/interaction with everyone who I let read my blog, because it would be a lot of social work being done at once, and take more social energy than I have.

(I've been using "social work" to describe "work done toward maintaining one's social life" - but it isn't a good term for that, because "social work" already means something else. Can anyone think of a good term for what I'm talking about? "Socializing" implies fun, which this doesn't have to be - it can be fun social interaction, or it can be social interaction imposed by time and circumstance, that must be managed.)

Ursula said:
I wonder about the people who have dozens and dozens of people on their friends list. Do they really have so many friends?
I think I can answer this one because I have many friends on my list. LOL. I have sent out maybe 2-3 requests but the others have all been directed to me, requesting my friendship. This does not mean that I'm so special or anything. I think I do have some very special friends here and also a lot of people I enjoy interacting with. "Friends" is a term that covers them all, at least online.

Does the idea of friend mean so little that they'll use it for anyone?
Not in my case, no, but it is much more flexible than IRL. Besides, those who are my true friends know who they are perfectly well and don't even need to be on my list to know that.

I know for some "friend" means something different in an online group than it does in real life. But I can't handle that distinction, emotionally.
I can understand this but I think it's something I also had to get over on the new LHC. Once that barrier was down I relaxed more and am now happy to add new friends as long as we have interacted before; they are usual posters, might be old lurkers who have approached me because they want to read my Blog, or might be new members (in which case I'd appreciate a PM or something).

If the person in question is completely unknown to me or on the boards and hasn't bothered to PM me or anything I'll think twice about accepting a request.

I can understand this but I think it's something I also had to get over on the new LHC. Once that barrier was down I relaxed more and am now happy to add new friends as long as we have interacted before; they are usual posters, might be old lurkers who have approached me because they want to read my Blog, or might be new members (in which case I'd appreciate a PM or something).

Hmm...

It might be more accurate to say that it is something that I am not willing to make the effort to get over.

It would require rewiring a big part of my brain, to make "friend" mean something other than "friend." And it would mean redefining a large part of my identity, to change from being someone who has a very small number of close friends to being someone who will call even the most casual acquaintance "friend."

A huge amount of mental effort, for a result I find distasteful and destructive.

It's actually rather distressing, to be feeling as if I'm being expected to make that type of change in my basic nature. And to have it constantly in my face that once again, I'm a strange and unnatural outsider, to dislike so much what everyone else likes, and to be expected to deal with what I dislike if I'm to be included at all.

Is there any way to turn off the "friends" list entirely? (Just for myself, I mean, not to take it away from everyone.) I'd rather list no friends at all, then have to deal with this. And I'd really, really like to just opt out - no "friends" list, no "friends" requests, (in particular, no "friends" requests) just make it all go away.

Like Amoretti, I've had a bunch of people ask to add me, though I've sent out only a few requests of my own. I'm sure, this, in part anyway, is because my journal is marked for friends only and people may be wanting to read it. (For henna information mostly, I'd imagine.) Granted, no, I haven't approved everybody, and those are for reasons beholden only to me.

I do agree the monkier "Friend" is misplaced here, Ursula. I have few IRL friends, and all of them are very, very close. I find people here kind and caring, but truly, I have my IRL friends, and they have theirs, and with few exceptions, there isn't much overlap.

A more apt name for me would be a "filter list" or "approved list" or something or another, but it's called "friends' because that's what the Powers that Be deemed it. The name doesn't change the basic functionality, and "Nightshade has accepted your friend request" sounds nicer to people than, "Congratulations, you've passed Nightshade's filter!"

With the elimination of the 60 day/100 posts thing, that's really all we have left to work with, and I rather like it more because now I *know* exactly who can see what I write, and I've started to write less generally and a bit more open-ended and chatty because of it.

To keep this in perspective, I'm not saying that I've not accepted friends just to scare people off, the percentage has been small, and in each case I've sent the person a personal PM explaining my reasoning. I think that's the least I can do, and each and every person has understood my reasoning and no issues have occurred.

I do agree the monkier "Friend" is misplaced here, Ursula. I have few IRL friends, and all of them are very, very close. I find people here kind and caring, but truly, I have my IRL friends, and they have theirs, and with few exceptions, there isn't much overlap.

A more apt name for me would be a "filter list" or "approved list" or something or another, but it's called "friends' because that's what the Powers that Be deemed it. The name doesn't change the basic functionality, and "Nightshade has accepted your friend request" sounds nicer to people than, "Congratulations, you've passed Nightshade's filter!"

With the elimination of the 60 day/100 posts thing, that's really all we have left to work with, and I rather like it more because now I *know* exactly who can see what I write, and I've started to write less generally and a bit more open-ended and chatty because of it.

To keep this in perspective, I'm not saying that I've not accepted friends just to scare people off, the percentage has been small, and in each case I've sent the person a personal PM explaining my reasoning. I think that's the least I can do, and each and every person has understood my reasoning and no issues have occurred.

Well, "passing the filter" is what "Contacts" is - and I like that the pass/fail of the filter is private - known to me, and perhaps to the person who has passed the filter. There is no need for the entire community to know whether or not a given individual has passed this or that person's filter to see their blog.

"Friend" goes beyond just passing the filter - it is a public declaration, known to anyone.

I wouldn't particularly like it if the private "Contacts" option was taken away, and the public "Friends" option was renamed "Contacts" or "passed the filter" or whatever.

Probably 90% or more of the people here I'd be willing to have on a private "pass the filter" to see my blog/journal. But there is probably less than 5% I'm willing to publicly identify as "friend." But I feel as if there is a lot of pressure to publicly call everyone a "friend" unless they are so vile you wouldn't even call them a "pass the filter to see my blog."

And my discomfort and resentment of the whole "friends" system has been building since LHC came back online with this feature.

A big plus of the old setup was that interaction was rather carefully controlled. No comments on journals, discussion only on topical threads, and a limited number of PM's for private contact. Those who wanted more personal contact could have more, by sending a PM, and exchanging e-mails if they wanted more interaction than 50 PMs allowed. But if you liked the limited interaction, it was a big advantage that it took a little bit of effort (in the form of writing a PM) for someone to initiate more close interaction. That effort meant that people thought a bit before initiating an interaction.

Now it is far more "social" whether you want it to be or not. Now it is so easy - just a click of the button, with no limit on how many you do - to initiate a friends request, and then the reciever has to deal with it whether or not they want to deal.

Having to explain to every person who makes a friends request why I turned them down - when I didn't initiate the interaction at all - would take more social energy than I have. (And I've managed to cut back the number of friends requests by being public about disliking the whole system, but I'm still getting a few a day.)

Ursula, you make good points, and I had misunderstood, thinking that friends and contacts were interchangable terms, so it's good to know they are not.

In that light, why are there two different systems? That just seems to complicate things a bit...

Ursula, you make good points, and I had misunderstood, thinking that friends and contacts were interchangable terms, so it's good to know they are not.

In that light, why are there two different systems? That just seems to complicate things a bit...

You can add someone as a contact, granting them access without sending a notification or a request to them. It's one sided and only up to you.
For example, I have added some people to my Contacts of whom I know that they are not comfortable with the friends system so that they can read my blog without having to go through the trouble of rejecting me (potentially) as a "friend".

You can add someone as a contact, granting them access without sending a notification or a request to them. It's one sided and only up to you.
For example, I have added some people to my Contacts of whom I know that they are not comfortable with the friends system so that they can read my blog without having to go through the trouble of rejecting me (potentially) as a "friend".

I understand it, but I still find it a bit overly complicated. C'est la vie, however, and if that's how the system works, then I suppose the best thing is just to be aware. Ursula, somewhere I thought I read that Friend notifications disappear after a few days without response, can you just wait for them to expire?

I understand it, but I still find it a bit overly complicated. C'est la vie, however, and if that's how the system works, then I suppose the best thing is just to be aware. Ursula, somewhere I thought I read that Friend notifications disappear after a few days without response, can you just wait for them to expire?

Well, I've been ignoring my "friends requests" notifications for several days now, since I just can't deal.

I'm not sure exactly when the oldest one was put in, but I know there is at least one that was put in on 3/15, and it is still there. (Maybe it went away on the other person's "Friendship requested" list?) And it still counts towards the little bold "Your Notifications" number at the top of each page. I'll have to see if it eventually expires and goes away, or if they just accumulate on my end.

Well, I've been ignoring my "friends requests" notifications for several days now, since I just can't deal.

I'm not sure exactly when the oldest one was put in, but I know there is at least one that was put in on 3/15, and it is still there. (Maybe it went away on the other person's "Friendship requested" list?) And it still counts towards the little bold "Your Notifications" number at the top of each page. I'll have to see if it eventually expires and goes away, or if they just accumulate on my end.


That's aggravating. I would hope that since you've announced that you're not participating in the friend list thing that those that did put in a request could cancel it.

That doesn't solve the basic problem you're having, but it would make it less annoying.

That's aggravating. I would hope that since you've announced that you're not participating in the friend list thing that those that did put in a request could cancel it.

That doesn't solve the basic problem you're having, but it would make it less annoying.

Well, I just updated my sig, emptied my "Friends" list, (as well as the Friends request list) and hopefully this will address the issue. I can't think of a better way to deal with it, for now.

I emptied out my "Friends" list because I think it is only fair, if I am opting out, to have no one on the list at all, than to try to publicly play favorites.

No friends at all, for me! :cheese:

Well, I just updated my sig, emptied my "Friends" list, (as well as the Friends request list) and hopefully this will address the issue. I can't think of a better way to deal with it, for now.

I emptied out my "Friends" list because I think it is only fair, if I am opting out, to have no one on the list at all, than to try to publicly play favorites.

No friends at all, for me! :cheese:

I think that's a most wise solution on your part, well done :)

For the Friend Lists here, "acquaintance" might be more accurate, and my guess is that's how a lot people view it, but just operate within the limits of the system set-up.

Ursula, how about putting a line in your signature to summarize your disinterest in the whole Friending process, so people might stop requesting friendships with you? Perhaps it could be added to your profile and the first entry in your blog, too?

Nightshade, I don't think friendship requests disappear with time. They remain in a "hold" state until actively managed. I have some that are a week old because the members have not returned to the site yet to address them.

Something I'm noticing in the various discussions about this is that people are primarily concerned about who is going to read their own blogs. However, requesting a friendship informs the other person that you are interested in her, in reading her blog and viewing her photos. Of course it becomes public, then. I suppose if people don't want the public to know that they're friends, they could mutually add each other to their Contact lists and never reply to each other's blogs or write photo comments or profile visitor comments.

That's why I'd say it doesn't hurt to do the full friend request rather than just add as a contact.

In light of the recent discussion I'd like to modify my original wording. I did not foresee the stress friend requests can cause and I apologize to Ursula and others who have been affected. The people who have decided to use the friend category for closest friends have my admiration for sticking to their beliefs. You shouldn't have to defend your choice with the work (and it is work) of replying to a request that took just a click to create.

Just to add another perspective on what friendship can mean, I am one of the least social people at LHC and this new style has helped me open up and communicate (in ways I want to) more than I did before. Reading much more than I wrote there have always been so many people here I admired but never let them know I was a fan.

Some "friends" are closer than others and Bill D. certainly deserves some kind of gold star next to his name. At the same time, if I needed support anybody on my friend list leaving a comforting message would be meaningful to me. To me that certainly fits my definition of friendship even if everybody on that list isn't getting a handmade birthday card from me.

Elizabeth

That is so beautifully said, Elizabeth!:flowers:

Oh, how I hate that the word "friend" is used for this purpose! :( That said, a lot of words in English, possibly even the majority of them, have more than one meaning. Sure, it causes a bit of confusion sometimes, but for the most part, we learn to deal with the different meanings in different context.

I hope I didn't upset anyone too much with my posts on this topic. It took a bit of thinking out loud (so to speak) to narrow down just why I was so upset, and figure out how to fix the problem. (I did not know, when this all started, that opting out was something I wanted, or that I might try to manage an opt-out in the way I decided to try.)

Thank you to everyone who contributed to this!

A more apt name for me would be a "filter list" or "approved list" or something or another, but it's called "friends' because that's what the Powers that Be deemed it. The name doesn't change the basic functionality

Yes, and the Powers That Be in this case is the creators of the vBulletin software. So it does absolutely no good for any of us to debate it, because it's a built-in part of the software that's not going to change.

Now it is far more "social" whether you want it to be or not. Now it is so easy - just a click of the button, with no limit on how many you do - to initiate a friends request, and then the reciever has to deal with it whether or not they want to deal.

Having to explain to every person who makes a friends request why I turned them down - when I didn't initiate the interaction at all - would take more social energy than I have.

Why is there any need to explain at all? If you don't want to accept the request, simply don't, and that's that. There's no need to make a mountain out of a molehill.

Well, I just updated my sig, emptied my "Friends" list, (as well as the Friends request list) and hopefully this will address the issue. I can't think of a better way to deal with it, for now.

Just be aware that many people have signatures turned off, so don't get irritated if they don't see your announcement. :twocents:

Well, now I've gone and really put my foot in it!

It seems I actually DO have people on my contact list that are not on my friend list. This wasn't done on purpose. Now I have to sit down and compare both lists of names and see who was accidentally put as a contact instead of a friend. YIKES! If I hurt anyone's feelings it's because I'm computer challenged (totally unfamiliar with how to work My Space and all that stuff).

Geez........

I hope I can save you time comparing lists, Darian Moone. All you have to do is click on 'User CP' in that bar across the top of the page. Then in the left side menu choose 'Contacts & Friends' in the 'Networking' section. That will show you a page with all contacts on it. The ones that are friends too will have a checkmark in the 'friend' box. Contacts will have an empty box or a greyed out checkmark and the words 'friendship requested'.

Why is there any need to explain at all? If you don't want to accept the request, simply don't, and that's that. There's no need to make a mountain out of a molehill.

Well, I wasn't explaining at all. But I saw a few blog posts/threads where people seemed distressed when friendship requests were turned down. The consensus on this thread seemed to be that the thing to do was explain when you turned down a request, to avoid hard feelings. I don't particularly want to cause distress for others around here. Yet the prospect of trying to PM everyone who sent a friendship request was daunting.

The bigger problem, for me, is the lack of control - there seems to be no limit on how many requests one can get, or how many times one can send a request to another. I need to control/pace my social life, or I get overwhelmed. With PMs, they seem to naturally come at a rate I can handle (say, 1-4 a month, not counting back and forths in conversation started by maybe a quarter of those PMs) but this was all too fast a furious for me. And each one demanded a bit of social energy, to look at, figure out who the person is, and try to decide if they should be a friend, contact, or neither.

A flat out "no friends, please don't ask" policy seems to be the only way to manage, both limiting the number of requests and limiting the amount of energy I have to put into the requests I do get. (If I have any friends, then I've got to decide who is or isn't a friend. So better none at all.)

Which lets me save my social energy for the technical/topical discussions, which I do enjoy, and where I think the energy is more productively spent than on twitching over a half-dozen requests that took no more than a click of a button to make.

Just be aware that many people have signatures turned off, so don't get irritated if they don't see your announcement. :twocents:

I'll try not to get too annoyed - for the half day I've had the sig, there have been no requests, and I added the message to my blog description. At the very least, it should help get the pace of requests to something I can manage sanely.

I hope I can save you time comparing lists, Darian Moone. All you have to do is click on 'User CP' in that bar across the top of the page. Then in the left side menu choose 'Contacts & Friends' in the 'Networking' section. That will show you a page with all contacts on it. The ones that are friends too will have a checkmark in the 'friend' box. Contacts will have an empty box or a greyed out checkmark and the words 'friendship requested'.

Thanks CountessDeJager! I had no idea I could do that. :flowers:

Would it be helpful if there was a sticky thread or a social group for people to announce they are not using the "friends" system? That way, people could check in one stop who is not taking friend requests.

It might save time and perhaps prevent a few hurt feelings.

Would it be helpful if there was a sticky thread or a social group for people to announce they are not using the "friends" system? That way, people could check in one stop who is not taking friend requests.

It might save time and perhaps prevent a few hurt feelings.

At this point, I don't think anyone besides me has tried to do a full "opt out". So I'm not sure if it is needed. If more people were to opt out, perhaps.

Although, if I'm going to do social groups, a social group of one where I can quietly sit and read sounds tempting... :demon:

At this point, I don't think anyone besides me has tried to do a full "opt out". So I'm not sure if it is needed. If more people were to opt out, perhaps.
I know of one other person who is also not using the system.

I noted others who are severely limiting their lists to "people I've actually met" or similar.

Although, if I'm going to do social groups, a social group of one where I can quietly sit and read sounds tempting... :demon::D

I know of one other person who is also not using the system.

I noted others who are severely limiting their lists to "people I've actually met" or similar.

:D

Cool. I'm not the only one!

I suppose it makes sense that the social folk have a better grasp on who is being asocial than the asocial folk. :couch:

more productively spent than on twitching over a half-dozen requests that took no more than a click of a button to make.

I think it's a pretty big assumption that anyone who asked to be your friend didn't put any thought into it - they just clicked because it was so easy. Like the ease of it tricks people into "friending" others? :wink:

Anyway, to each their own, but I think many people are freaking out about this unnecessarily. If you don't want to use it, just don't. It's more effort to talk about it all over the boards than to just quietly not accept any friendship requests. :twocents:

Cool. I'm not the only one!

I suppose it makes sense that the social folk have a better grasp on who is being asocial than the asocial folk. :couch:

What a funny feeling to be called "social!" :eek: In person, I'm shy and awkward. For some reason, I do a little better online.:shrug:

Would it be helpful if there was a sticky thread or a social group for people to announce they are not using the "friends" system? That way, people could check in one stop who is not taking friend requests.

It might save time and perhaps prevent a few hurt feelings.I proposed a thread in which everyone can announce their friend/contact policy if they wish, but the mods didn't seem very receptive to the idea. :shrug: Meanwhile, I'm putting mine in the "About me" section of my profile and stating it on the sig.

I proposed a thread in which everyone can announce their friend/contact policy if they wish, but the mods didn't seem very receptive to the idea. :shrug: Meanwhile, I'm putting mine in the "About me" section of my profile and stating it on the sig.

In the absence of an official thread, that's probably the best solution...

Oh wow..its complex o_O

Everyone is a friend to me :lol:..maybe I should check if I was removed anywhere..:confused:

I proposed a thread in which everyone can announce their friend/contact policy if they wish, but the mods didn't seem very receptive to the idea. :shrug: Meanwhile, I'm putting mine in the "About me" section of my profile and stating it on the sig.

The thing is, although people would read such a thread now when the software is new (and when it's a new thread without too many posts), it's not likely to help newbies who join a few months from now. If I were a newbie, I'd be more likely to click a quick friend request than page through a long thread like that just in case the person I'm interested in had posted in it. That's why it makes more sense to choose a solution that's in your sig/profile/blog - something that our hypothetical newbie would be more likely to run across when thinking about sending a friend request.

I really think the most efficient (for everyone) is the idea of putting your wishes in your signature and in your "about me" area of your profile. snap, done

I thought the thread would get more exposure, thus encouraging more people to make their own policy public. I hadn't envisioned people having to go through the entire thread. You can still link to your post on the thread in your sig. Actually it would've been more convenient for any would-be friends to just click the link to see your policy instead of having to look for it in your profile. But it's no big deal.

I just hope more people make their policy public and easy to find to minimize the instances of hurt feelings and/or unfounded fear of rejection.

Anyway, to each their own, but I think many people are freaking out about this unnecessarily. If you don't want to use it, just don't. It's more effort to talk about it all over the boards than to just quietly not accept any friendship requests. :twocents: Absolutely! I agree!

Although I confess, I find this whole discussion entertaining.

I mean, as a confirmed hermit-like introvert (way over at the 100% "I" side on formal MBTI tests), I am totally baffled by people getting hung up on the meaning of "Friend" on V-Bulletin, and why they would confuse this in any way with real life.

As for me, I see the label here as somewhat interchangeable with "Indigo."

And, for the record, if I've decided that I'm open to sharing my thoughts and pictures with someone whose virtual persona I've met here, I would much prefer to be open and up front about it, and just tell them that via sending or accepting a Friend/Indigo invitation, rather than surreptitiously adding them as a contact.

(Personally, I think there is something really sneaky about Contacts. I'm baffled that's not more of an issue here. Not that I want to open another box of delightful horrors... )

Anyway, on with the show...

I've said it once and I'll say it again; I don't see any point in having "contacts". Either you trust someone enough to let them read your Blog/See your pics, or you don't.

I honestly don't see the point in differentiating between "friends" and "contacts".

I feel fine about accepting friends requests from practically everyone that is honest and upfront as far as I can see. And if a psycho stalker gets through the net then it'll be my own fault. LOL.

There are some truly private things in my life I haven't mentioned here and nobody knows about. Those I keep to myself. I don't even discuss them with my husband. LOL.

I choose what to write about. Nobody is forcing me to disclose anything that is very private. It's 100% up to me.

To sum it up, I wouldn't even be writing an online Blog if I didn't want to share my life.

I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings by rejecting them. So if you are a regular LHcer and have a good number of posts (100) and a 60 day membership, don't feel shy about sending me a friends request. Ok?:) And if we've never interacted I'd love it if you said hi on my Profile page too.

I've said it once and I'll say it again; I don't see any point in having "contacts". Either you trust someone enough to let them read your Blog/See your pics, or you don't.

Yeah, but you can also just add someone as a contact instantly who you decide you wouldn't mind reading your journal, but who at the same time may not accept you as a "friend" or you don't want to have a big deal of sending a friend request to them. :shrug:

ETA:

You can add someone as a contact, granting them access without sending a notification or a request to them. It's one sided and only up to you.
For example, I have added some people to my Contacts of whom I know that they are not comfortable with the friends system so that they can read my blog without having to go through the trouble of rejecting me (potentially) as a "friend".

Great minds think alike, JS. :wink: I promise I didn't read your post before I posted the above!

Sian, to me the big deal is faffing around with contacts, etc; not simply adding a friend. I find it much more of a hassle to add a contact, etc.

A more apt name for me would be a "filter list" or "approved list" or something or another, but it's called "friends' because that's what the Powers that Be deemed it. The name doesn't change the basic functionality, and "Nightshade has accepted your friend request" sounds nicer to people than, "Congratulations, you've passed Nightshade's filter!"

I would actually prefer for it to be called something like this (I know, I'm boring!)- because that's all it is. When you accept someone as a friend, you don't really mean that they're your friend necessarily, and I like to say what I mean (or for the computer to say exactly what I mean!) I don't feel the need to dress it up as something it isn't.

Anyway, it's interesting that some people attach importance to the meanings of words (I certainly do), whereas others don't seem as bothered. (BTW, I mean this purely from an "aren't people interesting?" angle, rather than saying one is better than the other).

I also don't understand why lists of friends have to be public, so that when you go into someone's profile it says "Showing 9 of Member X's 267 friends." Surely it would still work the same if only Member X could view their list of friends and no one else could? I don't have to know how many "friends" Member X has.

ETA: Well, maybe the issue in the last paragraph is just part of the software too. :shrug: The world is probably just generally made for people who are more carefree about being sociable than I am.

Sian, to me the big deal is faffing around with contacts, etc; not simply adding a friend. I find it much more of a hassle to add a contact, etc.
I like the mutuality of Friending, which says I want to read their writings and see their photos, not just that they can see my stuff. It's a compliment to others to say that we're interested in them, and that's a, erm, friendly thing to do. :wink:

I'm just so glad that darkwaves Indigoed me. :laugh:

I like the mutuality of Friending, which says I want to read their writings and see their photos, not just that they can see my stuff. It's a compliment to others to say that we're interested in them, and that's a, erm, friendly thing to do. :wink:


I'm not very good at being friendly, then! :lol: I'm not a very friendly person at all. :twisted:

Some of my concerns regarding the whole Friends deal have already been covered. One that hasn't (I think?) is the reluctance to start a war or just insult someone. Case in point: I have very strong opinions on some subjects. Call them hot buttons if you wish. I know from threads at the old LHC that there are people here who would be offended. I am offended by their opinions on these subjects. I do not wish to accept these people as "Friends" or even "Contacts". I would like it if requests simply expired after a certain length of time. I really don't want to publicly insult someone with a "friendship rejected".

Certainly not asked for, I'm just adding my three cents. LOL.
Velvett, please know this is not a rebuttal to your post, simply
my take for my friends list. :)

Oh, no, that long-winded woman KM is back on the bandwagon! :p

So far, I have accepted all friend requests. Though there are
friends in my list with differing views on certain subjects, I
don't know of, or remember anyone from the boards I feel
strongly enough to reject as a friend / pal / contact / neighbor /
whatever-you-wanna-call-it. While I may not like your
particular flavor of ice cream, I can look past personality issues.
Internal hate in a person is another story.

Now if I were to see a post by a certain person with particulars
I highly object to, by all means I would not only remove that person
but probably keep a little list right here by my computer. Years ago
I actually had such a list. I don't care for certain attitudes, but I can't
possibly remember everyone's particulars, nor can I read every post
to find out who is which thinking what. Until I see it, I'll assume you are
a decent person.

Don't show me your underwear and I won't show you mine.

On the other hand, opting only to include friends you know and
trust eliminates the worry of association by friends list, if you know
what I mean. ;)

Speaking only for myself, until you pith me off or I see vile coming from
your posts :disgust:, you're my friend. To quote Gabiwags..."Be yourself,
unless you suck."

Awwww. Group hug! :grouphug:

Karen Marie
Who is enjoying a day of WITH PAY. Whoo hooooo!

To quote Gabiwags..."Be yourself,
unless you suck."


Forgot about that! I loved Gabi's quote! :D

I would like it if requests simply expired after a certain length of time. I really don't want to publicly insult someone with a "friendship rejected".


I think they do, IF the person logs in.

Some of the mods from TBB and I tested it out. I ignored her for several days and she said I finally dropped off her list. Of course, I'd been logging in every day. Now, I have some people I've requested friends with/of and they haven't replied. Of course, they haven't been online in 2 or 3 or 4 years, but I've requested it anyway. I figure if/when they log in a few times, if they ignore the request, then they will drop from my list.

Does that make sense?

Thanks, TB! I'm glad to hear that it works that way.

Interesting! May I ask another question? Do contact-only blogs or photo albums show up on any lists for non-contacts/friends, or are they completely invisible? In other words, if I look at the list of blogs, will I only see public blogs and those of friends/contacts? Or will I see everyone's blog and just not be able to view the non-friend/contact ones?

I'm wondering because so far, I haven't been denied access to any blog, and I know I can't be on everybody's contact list! ;) Maybe I just haven't looked hard enough?

I'm pretty sure the private blogs/albums you don't have access to just don't show up like they don't exist. I recently befriended someone with a private blog and she had all these blog entries that I never knew existed and all of a sudden the latest one just showed up on the "Find more (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/blog.php?do=list)" view once I befriended her.

So yeah, I have this nagging feeling that I missed some people whose journals I used to read on the old LHC and I'll never know it!

Oh I am so confused! I don't do MySpace and had no idea this Friend thing was like that. :(

I think I'll make my blog private - or maybe take it down. I didn't have a Journal on old LHC because I felt private about things, and I very seldom read journals - somehow it seemed like PeepingTom stuff. Even if it wasn't private.

I guess I'm messed up. Nothing new there.

I wonder - can one change Friends to Contacts? Just a question...

Embee, you can change a friend into a contact by unchecking the friend box and saving the changes but keep in mind it is being a 'contact' that lets people view your private material. The 'friendship' only adds them to your list of photos as people you have friended. To keep someone from being able to material you have set to private means you would have to remove them as a contact as well by clicking the check box on their picture when viewing your friends/contacts and then saving the changes.

I wonder - can one change Friends to Contacts? Just a question...
You can, but unless they also keep you as a Contact, you may lose the ability to view *their* blogs and photos, if they see that you've "defriended" them. I think this is how it works...:? Remember that making someone a Contact enables them to see your stuff; it does not enable you to see anyone else's.

I'm pretty sure the private blogs/albums you don't have access to just don't show up like they don't exist. I recently befriended someone with a private blog and she had all these blog entries that I never knew existed and all of a sudden the latest one just showed up on the "Find more (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/blog.php?do=list)" view once I befriended her.

So yeah, I have this nagging feeling that I missed some people whose journals I used to read on the old LHC and I'll never know it!

Thanks PatGear. So some people will be completely invisible to me in the blog area, I guess. Therefore, it is pointless to put notes in my blog introduction to "send a friend request in order to view this blog," etc. I wonder if there is also no "blog" tab on the profile page?

I wonder if there is also no "blog" tab on the profile page?If you look at the profile of people who's not your friend (and didn't put you on their contact list) and they have a private blog, their blog tab doesn't show up for you, either. In this case, you can still tell that they have one because of the "Blog Entries" statistics.

But in the case of the private photo albums, I don't think there's any way you can tell whether it exists.

Thanks LadyG and CDJ for trying to explain to me!

I better just leave well enough alone. I'd hate to "unfriend" anybody, that sounds so 2nd grade- "I don't want to be your friend any more"! ;) I think my feelings would be hurt if someone did that to me, I'd wonder what I'd done wrong.

...feelings, always in the way, always getting stepped on... sigh.

I'll just stay where I am in the Mane, Friendship, and Pets boards. :) With occasional forays into styles and toys.

Thanks. :)

If you look at the profile of people who's not your friend (and didn't put you on their contact list) and they have a private blog, their blog tab doesn't show up for you, either. In this case, you can still tell that they have one because of the "Blog Entries" statistics.

But in the case of the private photo albums, I don't think there's any way you can tell whether it exists.

Thanks so much for this explanation! I just experimented and your description worked just as you said!

there seems to be a lot of confusion and discussion about the new rules. i decided to opt out of lists of friends, as i was afraid there would be hurt feelings and 'popularity contest' going on. i personally like the contact only option as it is easier to find profiles of few members i am in contact with. i requested to be added as a contact as well and it worked really well. if anybody wants to be on my contacts list i will be happy to add them but i do not use the 'friendship ring'. personally think it is great there is more then one option to choose from. :)

I'm still confused by the friends thing. While flattered that so many people asked to be my friends, I didn't invite anyone to be my friend because I didn't think of it and didn't see it as important...I am really kind of overwhelmed here. Thus, I have not figured out pics, etc. and am not coming here as much, though I did donate. :)

I think I will follow Ursula's example and add something about this to my sig, so people understand...

Hi Katz,

Someone please correct me if I am mistaken, but Katz mentioned
she could not get pics to work in her signature. Is the signature pic
inserted as html, and also, must sig pics already have a url, or can
they be uploaded from a file or folder?

KM

From the looks of it, the sig pic cannot be html, but must be uploaded, either from your computer or from a URL (ie photo-hosting website like photobucket, etc).

I just tried to add one directly from my computer, and it seems to have worked. (If you can't see a pic when you read this post, it's because I've since removed the test pic. Trust me, it was there! :) )

There is a step which is not entirely obvious; once you Browse, and find the photo on your hard drive (it must be jpeg format), and push Upload.... when it's finished uploading, you then have to click the link that says 'Insert signature picture' or something similar (I can go back and check exactly where it is, if you need me to).

THEN it will insert the sig pic (although in the text box it won't show the pic itself, just the SIG and /SIG tags, in brackets.... you have to preview to actually see the picture). You then need to click 'Save Signature', and you should be done.

Does that help at all?

Also, there is a really good thread on sig problems, here (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=13).

ETA2: I just tested the URL version as well, and it worked for me. Just don't forget to click Save Signature, at the end. And I'm sure the answer to your problem will be in the sig help thread, if you haven't already got it sorted. :)

If someone I am friends with breaks the friendship, will they remain on my contact list or will they disappear?

If someone I am friends with breaks the friendship, will they remain on my contact list or will they disappear?
They will remain on your contacts list, but the checkbox for "Friends" will empty out. :flower: