Does anyone lighten and then henna?

[Sieren]

I have been considering trying this--I would like to go as natural as possible with my hair dye, but I can't get the extreme orangy-red that I want with JUST henna, since my hair is too dark to start with (med brown, like ~level 4 or 5). I would also go for blue/black (which I am currently, courtesy of chemical dyes + some indigo/henna 2 step, which only took on the length...bah!!), but for some reason indigo will only take on my ends, not my virgin roots, even with henna beforehand, and salt, AND baking soda. So that's out, I guess.

So I am wondering...perhaps just lightening with peroxide developer (maybe a 30 or 40 volume)would give me enough lift to get an orangy-red with a henna and cassia mix. I did bleach a strand of my hair today, for an experiment, and while I am sure it was damaged, it didn't really feel or look bad at all. Plus, my hair is VERY thick and durable. So maybe if the peroxide alone doesn't do the trick, a VERY short bleach job would... (strand tests, coming right up!! ...as soon as I grow out some virgin roots, that is ;) )

Sorry, hehehe.. *blush*...I guess I'm kind of thinking out loud here, but back to the point of this post; anyone who has done this or has any suggestions or tips for me would be most welcome!!

I would REALLY like to stay away from chemical dyes, but I really want to have some kind of vibrant, slightly unusual hair color (thats kind of just "me" I guess)! :P I know that peroxide and bleach aren't natural either, but imo that's better than the whole PPD thing.

Thanks in advance for any replies, lovely LHC'ers!! :D

[akurah]

STRAND TEST.

Indigo frequently turns green under bleach and other lightening agents. And not an attractive shade of it, either. Make sure you strand test before doing it.

[SimplyLonghair]

I agree with the strand test. Ktani did some research on using oil to protect hair that you are bleaching and I think that it was olive or coconut. Let me check and post a link. :D

[SimplyLonghair]

Okay I found the link to that thread Here it is. (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=10495):cheese:

[Unofficial_Rose]

Lightening hair with peroxide then hennaing over has become popular lately with people on the forum of the www.hennaforhair.com website - I'd have a look on there to see how they did it.

As one who's suffered the green effects of lightenened indigo and had to cut back to short to get rid of it :wail:, I'd definitely agree with those who said do a strand test

[ktani]

I have been considering trying this--I would like to go as natural as possible with my hair dye, but I can't get the extreme orangy-red that I want with JUST henna, since my hair is too dark to start with (med brown, like ~level 4 or 5). I would also go for blue/black (which I am currently, courtesy of chemical dyes + some indigo/henna 2 step, which only took on the length...bah!!), but for some reason indigo will only take on my ends, not my virgin roots, even with henna beforehand, and salt, AND baking soda. So that's out, I guess.

So I am wondering...perhaps just lightening with peroxide developer (maybe a 30 or 40 volume)would give me enough lift to get an orangy-red with a henna and cassia mix. I did bleach a strand of my hair today, for an experiment, and while I am sure it was damaged, it didn't really feel or look bad at all. Plus, my hair is VERY thick and durable. So maybe if the peroxide alone doesn't do the trick, a VERY short bleach job would... (strand tests, coming right up!! ...as soon as I grow out some virgin roots, that is ;) )

Sorry, hehehe.. *blush*...I guess I'm kind of thinking out loud here, but back to the point of this post; anyone who has done this or has any suggestions or tips for me would be most welcome!!

I would REALLY like to stay away from chemical dyes, but I really want to have some kind of vibrant, slightly unusual hair color (thats kind of just "me" I guess)! :P I know that peroxide and bleach aren't natural either, but imo that's better than the whole PPD thing.

Thanks in advance for any replies, lovely LHC'ers!! :D

You can also try lightening with honey and it has not been reported to turn indigo green. It depends on how much you want to lighten though and how fast. Keep in mind that the colour you want with henna will require a lot of upkeep because your hair is so dark to begin with and henna gets darker the more you use it although you can use cassia with it to prevent that.

Here is the Honey thread, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=148

The first post has pictures of honey lightening on hendigoed hair, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=291759&postcount=2341

and more pictures at the bottom of the post. The first post of the thread gives you all of the updated honey lightening information.

Honey lightening on different hair colours, from that post, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=133707&postcount=1095

[Isilme]

why not I guess. People put all kind of box dyes on their hair. But you could tweak the formula to be exactly right for your hair, and then you add henna which gives strength. My guess would be that you're method could be better than many other ways.

[Sieren]

Thank you so much for all the quick replies!! Tonight I will begin strand testing... :) And post pics if I can get some!!

Yesterday, I tried L'oreal effasol on one strand, and Ion bleach with 30 vol developer on another strand. Neither lightened the ends of my hair significantly, which are a build-up of indigo/henna and black dye. My ~2.5-3" roots that go from my natural medium brown to slightly darker due to an unsuccessful indigo treatment and faded black dye lightened alot, though!! The bleach did work a lot better than the effasol at lightening, and I didn't get ANY green with either.

So my next test will be using just 30v developer on one strand (probably for 40-50 minutes), and then bleach and 30v developer on another strand (probably for about 30 minutes or so), and then hennaning over both of them. I think that once my virgin hair starts growing out, 30v developer alone, or perhaps lightening with honey will work, but in order to lift more of the excess dye and indigo etc... off the 2-3" of "roots" I have now, I might need to use bleach powder in my 1st application.

[Unofficial_Rose]

Thank you so much for all the quick replies!! Tonight I will begin strand testing... :) And post pics if I can get some!!

Yesterday, I tried L'oreal effasol on one strand, and Ion bleach with 30 vol developer on another strand. Neither lightened the ends of my hair significantly, which are a build-up of indigo/henna and black dye. My ~2.5-3" roots that go from my natural medium brown to slightly darker due to an unsuccessful indigo treatment and faded black dye lightened alot, though!! The bleach did work a lot better than the effasol at lightening, and I didn't get ANY green with either.

So my next test will be using just 30v developer on one strand (probably for 40-50 minutes), and then bleach and 30v developer on another strand (probably for about 30 minutes or so), and then hennaning over both of them. I think that once my virgin hair starts growing out, 30v developer alone, or perhaps lightening with honey will work, but in order to lift more of the excess dye and indigo etc... off the 2-3" of "roots" I have now, I might need to use bleach powder in my 1st application.

I am intrigued that you managed to bleach over indigo and not get green. Maybe it depends upon the brand of bleach one uses? Ahem - if you lighten then henna, can we see pics?

[Sieren]

I am intrigued that you managed to bleach over indigo and not get green. Maybe it depends upon the brand of bleach one uses? Ahem - if you lighten then henna, can we see pics?

Yeah, I was rather intrigued myself!! Last time I bleached my indigoed hair, it turned turquoise after mabye, 3 applications of bleach. Right now, I am trying to even out the color as much as I can by bleaching different sections of the strand.

My only guess so far is that the indigo really didn't take at all on the less-damaged part of my hair, because that is the part that is lightening to a golden and red color. The ends don't really change color much, but go to a more cherryish black, but no green! (...yet *knock on wood*). Basically, my hair goes like this, from roots to ends:

1) virgin roots with one application of henna (golden-brownish-reddish)

2) middle strands were previously dyed with blue/black permanant dye, then hennaed, then indigoed

3) ends were all of the above + a few more app's of henna, indigo and blue/black dye.

So far it kind of looks like a sunset when I bleach it .. hehe!!

I will definitely post pics once I get a successful color, and maybe even a pic of just the bleached test strand, if I'm feeling ambitious tomorrow!! ;) Oh! and another tidbit--I did get an even red color after bleaching, and then dying over with ION 7RR color. However, I'd much rather do henna....
So on with the experiments!!!! :D :cheese:

[tabitie]

Henna un-does the damage from peroxide, at least semi-permanently. I did a 20 minute gloss with a couple of tsp's of henna and eggs and lotion.

Three shampoos later, the condition of my hair is still better than BEFORE it was treated twice for 40 minutes with volume 2 developer (as part of a brown dye process).

I'll never use chemdye again, if I can avoid it... see my albums for pix.

[Loviatar]

Basically, my hair goes like this, from roots to ends:

1) virgin roots with one application of henna (golden-brownish-reddish)

2) middle strands were previously dyed with blue/black permanant dye, then hennaed, then indigoed

3) ends were all of the above + a few more app's of henna, indigo and blue/black dye.

So far it kind of looks like a sunset when I bleach it .. hehe!!


OMG we are hairdye twins. :D
I bleached and then hennaed over the bleach a while ago. It went this colour:

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j47/Kate_Blacksmith/Juhenna.jpg
You can see how ragged and damaged the ends look. My hair felt very thin and fragile from the bleach.

Five full head applications down the line and it went this colour:
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j47/Kate_Blacksmith/Sig2.jpg
The strength I got back from multiple full head hennas was fantastic. The change fron the first pic (August) to this one (January) is incredible.

Oh, before the bleach it was this colour (henna over blue-black permanent dye):
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j47/Kate_Blacksmith/Inara2.jpg

So yes it can be done but please test and be careful. I tried to bleach out indigo last year and lost 3 inches to mushy irreparable hair.

I was tempted to bleach and rehenna again as I've been seeking that elusive bright red-orange shade for months, but I figure it's easier for me to just go back to permanent dye and look after it properly.

HTH

[Gothic Lolita]

Woah, Loviator! That's a huge color difference and look extremly cool!I played with the idea of lightening first and then hennaing a while ago, but was afraid of the damage. Maybe I'll try it though. It looks really cool!

[Sieren]

OMG we are hairdye twins. :D
I bleached and then hennaed over the bleach a while ago. It went this colour:

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j47/Kate_Blacksmith/Juhenna.jpg
You can see how ragged and damaged the ends look. My hair felt very thin and fragile from the bleach.

Five full head applications down the line and it went this colour:
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j47/Kate_Blacksmith/Sig2.jpg
The strength I got back from multiple full head hennas was fantastic. The change fron the first pic (August) to this one (January) is incredible.

Oh, before the bleach it was this colour (henna over blue-black permanent dye):
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j47/Kate_Blacksmith/Inara2.jpg

So yes it can be done but please test and be careful. I tried to bleach out indigo last year and lost 3 inches to mushy irreparable hair.

I was tempted to bleach and rehenna again as I've been seeking that elusive bright red-orange shade for months, but I figure it's easier for me to just go back to permanent dye and look after it properly.

HTH

Hehe, I guess we are!! ;) So far my attempts to bleach out the built-up indigo have been unsuccessful--it just doesn't change color on the ends where it has built up!! But I'm OK with having black-tipped hair for awhile...:cool: As long as the rest is bright red-orange!!
If you don't mind me asking, what kind of bleach did you use, and what volume of peroxide, and for how long? I've tried "quick blue" bleach with a mix of 1/2 30v and 1/2 40v peroxide for 50 minutes, which so far has seemed to work the best. Also, how long did you leave your henna on for?
*CAN'T wait for my punjabi prime henna to get here!!* I tried to henna over the bleached strand with some indian store henna, and didn't really get much color... :(
Thanks for all the replies!! :cheese:

[spidermom]

Years back we had a member (haven't seen her post in a very long time) who bleached then hennaed, but her hair ended up with sort of a stripey effect because of it being impossible to limit the process only to the roots. There's always going to be some overlap.

[twilight_faerie]

A couple of years ago I bleached my hair OVER henna before hennaing over the bleach to get a lovely strawberry blonde color. I loved the color so much that I was in complete denial about how much irreparable damage the bleach had done. When I finally came to my senses and realized that my hair was in shambles, I decided to never bleach my hair again. Of course, your results may be different than mine, but just thought I'd warn you about bleaching over henna.

[Sieren]

Years back we had a member (haven't seen her post in a very long time) who bleached then hennaed, but her hair ended up with sort of a stripey effect because of it being impossible to limit the process only to the roots. There's always going to be some overlap.

urgh...that is what I am afraid of happening...:p I wondering if it wouldn't be as much of a problem if I just lightened with peroxide and not bleach...

*sigh* I am quite confused as to what to do! I'd really like to stay away from products with PPD, but my hair has to be a unique color that I like, or I won't be happy. :( It seems like doing the lighten-then-henna process might be a little difficult to get consistant results with, now that you mention this, spidermom. I COULD use red hair dye, and then henna over that for conditioning...

[spidermom]

You might have to be the one to take the maiden voyage into this particular technique.

[kwaniesiam]

Not much input, but I guess the method in theory makes sense. The strength and conditioning from the henna would counteract some of the bleach damage and the henna wouldn't fade as horribly as permanent red dyes of that shade. :shrug: I'll be watching this thread, its been interesting so far.

[Upside Down]

Hmm I too am curious about this. I have had a similar idea, because once I accidently lightened my hair with honey...

Now because of the difference in virgin roots vs. previously dyed hair and henna on top of all that... I am trying to find a way of going deeper on the lenght to match the roots. But, maybe I will try to go lighter on the roots...

Will follow this thread with great interest, for sure!:)

[Sieren]

Hmm...found this thread over at hennaforhair.com
http://www.hennaforhair.com/forum/index.php?module=phpwsbb&PHPWSBB_MAN_OP=view&PHPWS_MAN_ITEMS=1278

[Nynaeve]

I seem to recall a thread about cinnamon bleaching hair, so I guess you could try some honey and cinnamon lightening treatments?
I would personally be very scared to bleach my hair, but I'm a very paranoid person by nature. How's it going so far?

[Sieren]

What I am planning on trying once my henna gets here, is to:

1. put 40v peroxide by itself on the whole strand (i think this will be enough to lighten the roots)
2. put 40v peroxide + quick blue bleach on the middle (red) part down to the ends (black) to lighten as much as I can
3. henna over that for 2 hours with punjabi prime henna mixed with water and lemon juice and cinnamon.

Well, I have bleached a few "test strands" into the underlayer of my hair. So far, the bleached strands have turned out blonde at the roots, then red, then black at the ends. I am planning on leaving the ends black, and then getting it eventually trimmed off, because I don't think that built-up indigo is going ANYWHERE! hehe And I don't mind the "sunset" effect.

[Loviatar]

Sieren, maybe not the best response you're looking for, but I went to a salon for the bleaching trick.

She used different peroxide levels because of the different colours in my hair. I remember she used something like 5% on my roots and 30% on my ends, not sure about the middle section. (I'd dyed blue black and grown a bit out, you see. )

I always left my henna on overnight, so about 8 hours.

[Sieren]

hmmm, well unfortuently I don't have the money to get it done at a salon...and I'd kinda rather do it myself anyways ;) My original idea of how to lighten is theoretically the same as what you had done, but maybe I'll try it how you described with the different volumes of peroxide. Or perhaps I shall do a strand test of both! :D *aghh when is my henna going to get here so I can start strand testing?!? hehe I'm impatient!*

[prosperina]

This may not be what you want, but I thought I'd throw it out there since no one has mentioned it...what about mixing cassia with henna? True it won't lift color, but it will stain your hair and with repeated application it does stick. There are members with medium brownish hair who achieve coppery colors with henna and cassia. My hair is lighter than this, but I think I have a similar thing going on. I'm not sure entirely what my natural color is since I haven't seen it in large quantities in a while, but when I grew out my bleach two years ago, I discovered a reddish blondish honey color, and my hair does *appear* lighter than this with the cassia/henna mix. Cassia won't penatrate into the hair the way henna does, but mixed with henna it's like magic. I :heartbeat: cassia. Without it, I'd be rather unhappy.

I mention this because I also hennaed over bleach and it didn't work out for me. My hair was stubbornly orange, and I could not get it to push over to even a semi believable red. I'm not saying hair color has to look natural (since there are many reds, even box reds that are pretty, but not naturally occuring--wine colored red case in point) but my hair really was pumpkin orange, which no one found pretty. I had formally been a Feria addict though, plus the natural red in my hair always pushed my blond to brashy, so I eventually used indigo to fix my mess, but that's another story.

If I were you I'd strand test like crazy. Then I'd honey lighten for several months, then I'd add cassia and henna mix on my whole head. However, then you also will have to deal with new growth....so if you lighten your hair first, you'll need to have a plan for your roots when they grow in. It's hard to lighten just your roots.

[Patrycja]

I'm on my phone right so hang in there with me. Yesterday,I chemical dyed my hair bright red with the top layer/crown a orangy red.Long story.anyway,my hennaed hair below still stayed a red wine.I am currently hennaing my entire head. Using jamilia,acv,and distilled water.I will let you all know what happens! NO GREEN!

[twilight_faerie]

This may not be what you want, but I thought I'd throw it out there since no one has mentioned it...what about mixing cassia with henna? True it won't lift color, but it will stain your hair and with repeated application it does stick. There are members with medium brownish hair who achieve coppery colors with henna and cassia.

I tried doing the henna-cassia thing a few nights ago on my medium brown hair, using a 2:3 henna:cassia ratio, and it didn't really work. My roots are now medium brown with coppery highlights...not the look I was going for. Of course, I didn't do any honey lightening beforehand, so it's possible that that could be the key factor in making medium brown hair copper. Or maybe it's just that you need to do several henna-cassia treatments before you really see the copper even when you're not in bright light. For now, I'm going to do some more honey treatments, and then I'll try to henna & cassia again.

[Sieren]

*yay* lots more replies!!
Prosperina ~
I would like my hair to look as natural as possible, but mabye a little more fiery.
I think that it is prbly too dark to just do henna and cassia, though. I'd most likely get auburn, even with both. However, your post made me think---I remember henna over my BLEACHED hair looking a little garish an unnatural from past experiments, so I'm leaning towards just using honey or a 20 or 30v peroxide on my roots to lighten more "gradually" you know? Also, that will hopefully prevent getting "bands" of different colors. And then to keep it light enough, since I won't be bleaching down to compeltely blonde, I will use henna and cassia (maybe 1/4 cassia and 3/4 henna, leave on for 2-3 hrs?). But for this first application, I think bleach will be necesarry, due to the built up black dye and indigo. Hm! Gosh, I wish my henna would get here so I could try some of these ideas out!!! ~_^

[Sieren]

Yay my henna is here! :D

[Sieren]

Ok, so I did it!! :joy: And it turned out really cool!!
So here is what I did:

1*Bleached all of my hair with 30v for about 15 minutes, which brought it to blonde at the roots (oops--didn't quite mean to get it THAT light!) reddish in the middles and black on the ends.

2*Bleached from the middle to the ends with 40v for about 40 minutes, which unfortunately ended up making the middles lighter but greenish (dratted indigo!!). But it actually looked kinda cool! hehe ;)

3*Hennaed with punjabi prime for 3 hours (hair was in much better condition after this!)

4*Dyed hair with ION 7RR to cover up the green, which worked very well!

5*Hennaed again with PP, this time for 2 hours.

The result is my hair is the PERFECT bright orangey red at the roots, and then goes to a darker red, then to black on the tips. I had it trimmed into a bob style in an effort to get rid of some of the black ends, and plan to keep trimming til they're gone and I have all red! Then start growing out again (for the billionth time *sigh*)! But I am finally happy with my color and using mostly natural products to achieve it, so this SHOULD be the last time I "start growing my hair out" :p

Considering how long I bleached for and then dyed with regular dye after ALL that, my hair is still in very good condition. I think that is partly thanks to the henna <3 and also because I have been coconut oiling every night, and conditioning my hair with Aubrey Organics GBP conditioner (normally I don't condition, just use Mehandi.com shampoo bars). Plus my hair is just super-resilient, thick and strong naturally.
Now that I've gone through the whole process, I think I will be able to get away with lightening with perhaps 30v peroxide with a pinch of bleach powder, and maybe with no bleach at all. I didn't realize how easily my hair would turn blonde!!
Overall, I am very happy with it!! :cool: I'll post some pics as soon as I have time to take some!