Can anyone confirm this? Henna + chemical dye = damage

[gallows_gallery]

Hello darlings!

Something interesting happened to me today, and I need your expertise! I'm horribly poor at the moment so instead of getting my hair coloured at my salon, I dropped in to buy the dye myself, for my friend to apply.

I hadn't visited since before Christmas - in that time I had dyed my hair with a henna/indigo mixture, then a dark brown chemical semi-permanent (to fix it :S), then a month later a whole head of cassia. After the cassia my hair was HEAVEN.

I told my hairdresser this (substituting "cassia" with "henna" as she probably wouldn't know what cassia is), and here is how the conversation went:

Me:....then a whole head of henna
Her: *GASP*! Do you know you just swore at me!?
Me: huh?
Her: HENNA!
Me: my hair was amazing after the henna
Her: (shaking head) henna is okay on its own, but if you apply it over the top of chemical dye it can damage and fry your hair, it reacts and snaps and stuff
Me: even 100% pure henna powder?
Her: Yes! Stay away from it.
Me: are you sure? Even 100% pure stuff?
Her: Trust me, I've been hairdressing for 20 years.

This horrified me!! I was planning on applying my chemical dark brown I bought, then doing a whole head of Jamilla 2008 the next day to gloss and redden it up!?

Can anybody confirm or deny this statement? That even pure henna over chemical dye ca cause problems? If it's true I'm stuck with an expensive lot of henna powder!

Thanks guys :)

[wintersun99]

Don't trust her.

If you've used 100% BAQ henna (like that sold at H4H or Hennasooq) you will be fine to chemical color over it. Now, whether that color will hold/stay, is another question... it never did for me, it washed out within a couple weeks, if that.

However, if you've used unverified 100% BAQ henna, or henna from a box, or compound henna (which is likely what your stylist is refering to) than you may have an issue. Compound henna contains metallic salts/compounds which will react with chemical color and melt your hair off, or turn it crazy colors.

As always, strand test.

p.s. I can't even count the times I've had that same reaction from the salon, I've stopped mentioning henna altogether now. When I get compliments from a stylist about health and color I just smile and say thanks... :D

[gallows_gallery]

Thankyou wintersun! I thought she was wrong. It seems to be one of those hairdresser superstitions. Perhaps based on reactions with impure hennas.

I was planning on chemical dying first, then hennaing second.

Thoughts?

[wintersun99]

The only "catch" I can think of is that since you used indigo, it may have problems with the peroxide in the chemical color (peroxide/bleach + indigo = green) but if you are doing roots only, or if you are not going lighter, you should be just fine.

[MeMyselfandI]

It all depends.

What is 100% henna? I have seen way to many boxes with 100% henna written on them and know there was more then pure henna in the box. That is the scarry part. What else was in those boxes? Did they simply contain herbs or metal salts or other chemicals?

In my case, my hair was breaking pff after to much bleaching and chemical dyes. 100% body art henna from Hennasooq did wonders for my hair.

I used Jamila (I think 2007) over chemical dye, with no ill effects.

Do strand test to be on the safe side.

I would caution you to know that chemicals are in your hair dye in case you ever want to lighten your hair with any chemicals.

ETA: Boy I type slow.

[nienna42]

Don't trust her.

If you've used 100% BAQ henna (like that sold at H4H or Hennasooq) you will be fine to chemical color over it. Now, whether that color will hold/stay, is another question... it never did for me.

As always, strand test.

p.s. I can't even count the times I've had that same reaction from the salon, I've stopped mentioning henna altogether now. When I get compliments from a stylist about health and color I just smile and say thanks... :D

What she said.

Some years ago (and maybe even now? Not sure...) the most readily available henna (outside the areas where it's been grown and used for ages) had metallic salts added to give it different colors. If the metallic salts and chemical color eventually got mixed, then they would do horrible things to hair. I've heard stories about hair smoking. shudder: So, it's kind of understandable that hairstylists are so critical of henna. I do wish, though, that someone would teach them the difference between pure henna and henna with metallic salts. Or that they would listen to their clients when the difference is explained to them.

[MeMyselfandI]

Thankyou wintersun! I thought she was wrong. It seems to be one of those hairdresser superstitions. Perhaps based on reactions with impure hennas.

I was planning on chemical dying first, then hennaing second.

Thoughts?

I do not know how long it takes semi permemant dye to come out. I wish I had never used permenant dye on my hair. (I dyed first then switched to henna.) On my hair, I find the section that has the chemical dye on it does not behave the same as the hair that has not had the chemical dye on it. The section with out the chemical dye on has more depth and is much nicer after being hennaed.

[Denebi]

You should be careful (test strand, as already mentioned), but it's possible to get good results.
I used to know a girl who always did first bleach and then apply henna on her roots. She was doing this for years and had beautiful waist-long hair.

[gallows_gallery]

Thank you for all your super fast replies!

The henna I am using is 100% pure BAQ henna from a lady in Perth who imports Jamilla 2008. She owns a safe henna business, and is very familiar with Catherine and H4H. I can almost 100% warrant that it is pure.

Wintersun - good point about the indigo and peroxide, but I'm not worried at all, because I had a dark brown semi applied AFTER my henndigo (two days after!) and it came out beautifully. Rich, glossy and reddish-brown.

I understand that dyed hair does not absorb/gain as much as virgin hair from henna. This is inevitable. All I want is a bit of a red gloss and "pick me up" after I do the brown dye. It's a very dark brown, by the way. Almost blackish.

[Nightshade]

She's wrong.

I heard the same thing, and I hennaed over dyed hair, as have many others, without issue. So long as you ensure that you are using 100% pure herbs, you're fine.

The thing to keep in mind is that most hair dresses had NO idea what henna actually is. To them, "henna powder" is all a "henna compound." You can read a lot more about them here (http://www.hennaforhair.com/warnings/index.html)and here (http://www.hennaforhair.com/science/whatsinit.html).

What happens is then you have somebody that dyes their hair, then uses compound henna and their hair starts to smoke and turn black and break off and they rush to the hairdresser sobbing, "I used HENNA." and of course they'll swear up and down it was pure.

I have found VERY few hairdressers that actually know what real henna is, and how on a chemical level, there is no way that plant dust can react like compound hennas do.

I hope that helps a bit :flowers:

ETA: And ALWAYS strand test, just to be safe, but I'd be floored if you had any issues with pure herbs.

[Darkhorse1]

I have 2 theories:
1. I'd take the henna into your hair dresser. While she may be wrong, she has been trained in regards to understanding chemicals for hair etc. I would venture to guess her experiences/training shouldn't be discarded
2. She may have dated knowledge in regards to her chemical knowledge/knowledge of henna. I'm sure in 20 years, products have changed.

In any sense, it doesn't hurt to bring the box in and go through what you wish to do, just to gather information. I'm one of those people who prefers to be well informed before I make a decision :D

[Nightshade]

It all depends.

What is 100% henna? I have seen way to many boxes with 100% henna written on them and know there was more then pure henna in the box. That is the scarry part. What else was in those boxes? Did they simply contain herbs or metal salts or other chemicals?


100% henna is just that, powdered henna leaves only.

The problem with boxes, especially those imported from other countries is they have no, or very lax, labeling standards and no quality control. They can put whatever they want on the box, regardless of what is on the inside.

This is why many of us hennaheads will only use BAQ henna that's intended for skin, because it isn't going to have a lot of the junk they put in "henna for hair" and they try to tell you you're going to get light ash blonde with it :rolleyes:

[Aisha25]

For me its easy to tell which henna is pure cause I only do my shopping at indian shops or arabian shops but im a hindi speaker. One way is to see the box if its small and says kali mehandi its not pure it means its hair dye. Another way is when find henna is to read the package itll say for use for skin and hair use and itll usually have hands covered in henna design 100% mehandi which is hindi for henna(arabic). So theres some tips for local shopping:)

[3azza]

I have noticed that most hair dressers have something against henna :(
Henna is all good

[Nightshade]

I have noticed that most hair dressers have something against henna :(
Henna is all good

Their distaste is from a combination of misinformation and the fact that hennaing isn't a service they provide, so they're out money of people go with henna rather than chemicals.

[MeMyselfandI]

100% henna is just that, powdered henna leaves only.

The problem with boxes, especially those imported from other countries is they have no, or very lax, labeling standards and no quality control. They can put whatever they want on the box, regardless of what is on the inside.

This is why many of us hennaheads will only use BAQ henna that's intended for skin, because it isn't going to have a lot of the junk they put in "henna for hair" and they try to tell you you're going to get light ash blonde with it :rolleyes:

I agree with you in theory that 100% henna is 100% henna.

Like you said, we know that the boxes from some companies that come in different colours and say 100% henna, must contain something other then henna to give the different colours.

I have been in healt food stores that sell boxed coloured henna, and have told people that there has to be something else in the box to give different colours and I am told the box says 100% henna. I tell them henna does not come in all those colours. Then I just walk away, no use arguing the point.

Body Art Quality Henna is a safer root in knowing what I am getting.

[Wyldekat]

I am very fortunate to have a hair dresser who is not scared of Henna. He liked my hair when I went in for my consultation. I told him what it was expecting him to freak out. He didn't. It was awesome. We just added bright bright red highlights to my already Henna head and it looks amazing! I've gotten so many compliments from it. He used L'Oreal Maji that lifts and deposits in one step. You do not have to bleach it at all. My hair is not trashed after it either. He is the only hairdresser I'm going to go to! (Oh, and I suggested cutting some hair off and he said NO WAY! Let's see how long we can grow it!) :)

[Heidi_234]

When I was still going to a hairdresser, it was a person who worked with henna for decades. Not only she wasn't afraid of henna, but she actually advised me to do root touch-ups for my hair loss issues between my monthly hennas, and even hennaed my whole head once. She even gave me a recipe (with onion skins) for hair loss (but I could keep up with it, because it's really hard to collect onion skins in the market all the time). She's fantastic, almost too bad I had to ditch her for growing my hair long.

[CopperHead]

I just dyed over my henna last week and had no problem at all. The only problem is, it looks almost extactly the same as before I dyed. Still two toned, so I will put some henna on tomorrow. If I am doomed to live two toned, it might as well be with henna. ;) The henna actually looked better. :)