Vinegar rinses make my hair dull

[Themyst]

After I CWC with my usual brands, I do a quick cider vinegar rinse (1 tablespoon vinegar to 4 cups water). Then I do a quick cold water rinse after that.

My hair has been noticeably dull since I've started that. It used to be very shiny, but now it's totally lost it's shine. Even my DH commented about it today, "Wow. Your hair looks really dull". I even put it in the sunlight and it hardly shone!

What the heck? Everyone recommends vinegar rinses for shine, etc. Why aren't I reading about any one else having problems with this?:confused:

[CestMadeleine]

Yeah as far as I can tell ACV rinses don't make my hair any shinier. Neither does henna. But then again my hair is pretty shinny as it is. So who knows.

[ktani]

After I CWC with my usual brands, I do a quick cider vinegar rinse (1 tablespoon vinegar to 4 cups water). Then I do a quick cold water rinse after that.

My hair has been noticeably dull since I've started that. It used to be very shiny, but now it's totally lost it's shine. Even my DH commented about it today, "Wow. Your hair looks really dull". I even put it in the sunlight and it hardly shone!

What the heck? Everyone recommends vinegar rinses for shine, etc. Why aren't I reading about any one else having problems with this?:confused:

Your rinse is 4 x more diluted then the "standard" rinse dilution, which is about 1 tablespoon vinegar to 1 cup of water. A lite version is 1 teaspoon of vinegar to 24 oz of water.

I cannot see the dilution that you are doing causing your current problem.

[Themyst]

Your rinse is 4 x more diluted then the "standard" rinse dilution, which is about 1 tablespoon vinegar to 1 cup of water.

A lite version is 1 teaspoon of vinegar to 24 oz of water.

Hmmm... perhaps my solution was pretty weak. However, I don't see how increasing the amount of vinegar would have a positive effect as far as getting my shine back. After all, the only new addition to my hair routine was vinegar in the first place - albeit very diluted - and now my hair is dull.

Shiny hair>>>>diluted vinegar rinse>>>>>dull hair

Are you saying that if I increased the amount of vinegar, that might solve the problem?

Maybe I'm looking at it wrong. I'm thinking that if I put too little sugar in my tea, it won't be sweetened to my liking, but it will still taste a bit sweet. So with the vinegar, shouldn't the little bit that I used at least make my hair just a bit more shiny - or just not change the shine at all - instead of decreasing the shine? Does my logic make sense? :)

[manderly]

No, your logic is a bit off.

Think more along the lines of if you're making a school volcano, and you put your baking soda in a dish and pour a drop of vinegar on it, it should give you a little bit of volcano foam. But in reality it only fizzes a bit and is absorbed by the baking soda.

Or if you put a pinch of baking soda in a dish and poured a cup of vinegar over it, you would have slightly bubbly vinegar ;)

You need proper proportions to get the desired result.



Now, it could also be that it doesn't react well with the products you're using. What do you CWC with?

[ktani]

Hmmm... perhaps my solution was pretty weak. However, I don't see how increasing the amount of vinegar would have a positive effect as far as getting my shine back. After all, the only new addition to my hair routine was vinegar in the first place - albeit very diluted - and now my hair is dull.

Shiny hair>>>>diluted vinegar rinse>>>>>dull hair

Are you saying that if I increased the amount of vinegar, that might solve the problem?

Maybe I'm looking at it wrong. I'm thinking that if I put too little sugar in my tea, it won't be sweetened to my liking, but it will still taste a bit sweet. So with the vinegar, shouldn't the little bit that I used at least make my hair just a bit more shiny - or just not change the shine at all - instead of decreasing the shine? Does my logic make sense? :)

What a vinegar rinse does is; help remove some kinds of residue (like soap scum) and close the hair cuticles, returning them an acidic state (so do conditioners, which are all acidic, but their pH varies). When the cuticles of the hair are closed tight (acid state), they reflect more shine.

Your conditioner may have a higher acid pH and your hair cuticles may not be closed as tight as they can be.

[Themyst]

No, your logic is a bit off.

Think more along the lines of if you're making a school volcano, and you put your baking soda in a dish and pour a drop of vinegar on it, it should give you a little bit of volcano foam. But in reality it only fizzes a bit and is absorbed by the baking soda.

Or if you put a pinch of baking soda in a dish and poured a cup of vinegar over it, you would have slightly bubbly vinegar ;)

You need proper proportions to get the desired result.



Now, it could also be that it doesn't react well with the products you're using. What do you CWC with?

I use Tresemme Anti-Breakage shampoo & conditioner. All this talk about cones and build-up - I thought maybe I'd see if vinegar would make any difference.

Funny you used that baking soda analogy. I was just making bath fizzies today and also did an exploding baking soda & vinegar plastic baggie experiment with the kiddies.:D

I still don't understand why the vinegar would have gone the opposite direction and made my hair dull, though. I can see your point about weakness, but then I would think it would really just have no effect at all.

[Yedda]

Well if your hair was shiny in the first place and now you are less happy with your hair since using vinegar, and you've been using a while, I would just stop using the vinegar.

[Themyst]

What a vinegar rinse does is; help remove some kinds of residue (like soap scum) and close the hair cuticles, returning them an acidic state (so do conditioners, which are all acidic, but their pH varies). When the cuticles of the hair are closed tight (acid state), they reflect more shine.

Your conditioner may have a higher acid pH and your hair cuticles may not be closed as tight as they can be.

I knew what the rinse was supposed to do (I actually read the LHC articles!) So that is why I am so confused.

I'm starting to wonder if there must be another factor involved that I've overlooked. There must be.:o

[Themyst]

Well if your hair was shiny in the first place and now you are less happy with your hair since using vinegar, and you've been using a while, I would just stop using the vinegar.

Thanks, yes, I probably will. But I'm just one of those people who are never satisfied with a simple answer. I need to know the whys of everything.:)

[manderly]

It's possible that the amount of vinegar you used was just enough to start to loosen any residue but not enough to rinse it out and close the shafts completely. Who knows! :D

I'd give it another shot with a stronger dilution, and if that doesn't work, go back to what works for your hair :D

[Kirin]

Here is my theory, for what its worth. You likely had relatively shiny hair, using your regular products...... but an acidic rinse roughed up, instead of smoothed cuticles, by dislodging some build up, but not all of it. For some of us, acid does not work as it should on the hair. For the most part, hair is "supposed" to like an acid mantle, but I am one of those whom any acid at all, makes for disaster. It may be, that your hair's PH was perfectly dandy, and the added acid tipped it over into a more acidic state than is natural and likeable for your hair.

I've noticed in a lot of LHC, people tend to forget this, that if the acid mantle is already perfectly fine, adding more can tip the PH into an unhappy zone. What I mean by this is, if in your physiology as an individual, you have a lower acidic PH threshold that is normal for your hair, doing what someone else does, using an acid, may not work for you. The PH of one person's hair and skin may be off, due to diet, water, products used...... but generally due to the person's make up, no two people are precisely alike.

Do I know any of this for fact? Certainly not, although I could almost guarentee you not everyone has the exact PH tollerances. It is the same as two people can use the same bar of soap, one is moisturized and the other gets dried out and skin cracks. Both individuals have different tolerances to an alkaline enviornment.

This is just a theory.

[Themyst]

Here is my theory, for what its worth. You likely had relatively shiny hair, using your regular products...... but an acidic rinse roughed up, instead of smoothed cuticles, by dislodging some build up, but not all of it. For some of us, acid does not work as it should on the hair. For the most part, hair is "supposed" to like an acid mantle, but I am one of those whom any acid at all, makes for disaster. It may be, that your hair's PH was perfectly dandy, and the added acid tipped it over into a more acidic state than is natural and likeable for your hair.

I've noticed in a lot of LHC, people tend to forget this, that if the acid mantle is already perfectly fine, adding more can tip the PH into an unhappy zone. What I mean by this is, if in your physiology as an individual, you have a lower acidic PH threshold that is normal for your hair, doing what someone else does, using an acid, may not work for you. The PH of one person's hair and skin may be off, due to diet, water, products used...... but generally due to the person's make up, no two people are precisely alike.

Do I know any of this for fact? Certainly not, although I could almost guarentee you not everyone has the exact PH tollerances. It is the same as two people can use the same bar of soap, one is moisturized and the other gets dried out and skin cracks. Both individuals have different tolerances to an alkaline enviornment.

This is just a theory.

That sounds reasonable enough to me. I did a search on my situation and thought it was strange that I didn't find similar stories. I think I'll try manderly's suggestion and do a stronger mix. If that doesn't work, I'll stop it completely. If it's not broke, don't fix it, right? That's what I get for my greediness - I already had a good shine going but I wanted MORE!:eyebrows:

Maybe I'll do a cassia or henna treatment soon. That should get me back to where I was.

I appreciate all the brainstorming.

[Heidi_234]

Could it be that the rinse removes some of the cones that previously gave your hair shine?

[Themyst]

Could it be that the rinse removes some of the cones that previously gave your hair shine?

That's also a good theory I had considered. I'm not sure how strong the stripping power of the vinegar rinse is as opposed to the gripping power of cones. If I recall, I posed a similar question on this forum a while back and the consensus was that the vinegar was not strong enough to strip the 'good stuff'.

I'm going to do a henna gloss tomorrow so that should just take care of my shine problem. I'll just stop using the vinegar.

[Ether_Drive]

After I CWC with my usual brands, I do a quick cider vinegar rinse (1 tablespoon vinegar to 4 cups water). Then I do a quick cold water rinse after that.

My hair has been noticeably dull since I've started that. It used to be very shiny, but now it's totally lost it's shine. Even my DH commented about it today, "Wow. Your hair looks really dull". I even put it in the sunlight and it hardly shone!

What the heck? Everyone recommends vinegar rinses for shine, etc. Why aren't I reading about any one else having problems with this?:confused:

I thought I was the only one. My hair looked border-line terrible after my first ACV rinse, and I have yet to try it again...though I want to..I've heard so many praises about acv.

Another questions..does anyone know if there is a particular oil that mixes well when doing an acv rinse, or is straight acv and water the best to do?

[Autumnberry]

That's also a good theory I had considered. I'm not sure how strong the stripping power of the vinegar rinse is as opposed to the gripping power of cones. If I recall, I posed a similar question on this forum a while back and the consensus was that the vinegar was not strong enough to strip the 'good stuff'.

I'm going to do a henna gloss tomorrow so that should just take care of my shine problem. I'll just stop using the vinegar.

It could also be that henna or cassia mud has clarified the hair to some extent and removed cones. My recent cassia seemed to do this, and well as previous hennas. I think it could be the vegetable matter pulling off buildup the way a clay mask pulls off dirt from the skin.

[spidermom]

Was your vinegar cloudy? Maybe you ended up with some residue on your hair.

I have to use white vinegar if I want to use vinegar at all because apple cider vinegar makes my hair look redder, which isn't great with my skin tone. But in general vinegar makes my hair so light and fly-away that it looks like a cloud, and not a particularly shiny cloud at that.

[Kimberly]

I have to use white vinegar if I want to use vinegar at all because apple cider vinegar makes my hair look redder, which isn't great with my skin tone. But in general vinegar makes my hair so light and fly-away that it looks like a cloud, and not a particularly shiny cloud at that.

I wonder if some other type of vinegar, like rice vinegar, might give you different results? I haven't tried it . . . haven't heard of anyone who has. So I don't know how it might work. Might be something to test on some shed hairs?

[Emichiee]

I've noticed in a lot of LHC, people tend to forget this, that if the acid mantle is already perfectly fine, adding more can tip the PH into an unhappy zone. What I mean by this is, if in your physiology as an individual, you have a lower acidic PH threshold that is normal for your hair, doing what someone else does, using an acid, may not work for you.


The thought behind the vinegar rinse is to neutralize the pH because shampoos and soaps are alkaline, so the ACV rinse is a good thought. Without any washing the overdose may be true but since a shampoo alone lowers the pH so much...I can't see how it would be bad.

I also had my troubles with it..I overdosed..and and underdose does not give me the desired results either.
Took me a while to find the best dilution for which is 1/3 vinegar and 2/3 water.

[Tap Dancer]

I always do a vinegar rinse in the beginning. I wet my hair, do the vinegar rinse, and CO. I don't remember if doing it at the end make my hair dull, but I know I didn't like the results.

[happymommy]

you aren't alone. I've tried 1TBSP to about 20 oz distilled water and it made my hair very dull, like it was coated with something.

I've discovered I can't use it as a leave in, but if I rinse after applying, it helps drastically. Shiny and soft :)

[Themyst]

Was your vinegar cloudy? Maybe you ended up with some residue on your hair.

I have to use white vinegar if I want to use vinegar at all because apple cider vinegar makes my hair look redder, which isn't great with my skin tone. But in general vinegar makes my hair so light and fly-away that it looks like a cloud, and not a particularly shiny cloud at that.

No, there's no cloudiness. But, I think I'll just stop using it for now anyway.

Thanks to all who responded. I guess like everything else, it just doesn't work the same for some.

[Runzel]

I know this thread is a little old, but just in case my input is found to be helpful...

I'm using plain white vinegar, so that might be different, but I've found that when rinsing it out with cold water it needs a very good, long rinse to get it all out. I've rinsed for 30+ seconds, been certain it's all out, and turned off the water, only to discover there's still vinegar left in it! For me personally, leave-in vinegar rinse created build-up on my hair and it was pretty dull, so I wonder if the problem is that your "quick cold rinse" just wasn't enough to get it all out. The way I test on my own hair is after I've turned off the water, when my hair is draining loads of water still, I catch some of it in my hand and--taste it--and if I can't taste the vinegar, it's all good! But if there's a little left, I grudgingly turn the water back on... :rolleyes:

[marialena]

After I CWC with my usual brands, I do a quick cider vinegar rinse (1 tablespoon vinegar to 4 cups water). Then I do a quick cold water rinse after that.

My hair has been noticeably dull since I've started that. It used to be very shiny, but now it's totally lost it's shine. Even my DH commented about it today, "Wow. Your hair looks really dull". I even put it in the sunlight and it hardly shone!

What the heck? Everyone recommends vinegar rinses for shine, etc. Why aren't I reading about any one else having problems with this?:confused:

Your hair are not shiny because you are leaving the rinse on them. ( if this isn't what you do, I apologize for understanding something different but I think that that is what you do).

The purpose of a vinegar rinse is to clarify hair after wash. So you have to use the vinegar rinse on you hair and then to rinse this vinegar rinse with water. ( I leave it on my hair for 1-2 minutes). If you make a last rinse with totally cold water too, then your hair will shine again like ... the sun. ;)

[euphrasyne]

I've done a vinegar rinse about once or twice a month for close to a decade and it always works wonders. It could be your application or your hair may just not like vinegar.

My routine:
1. Shampoo, condition, do the routine.
2. pour white vinegar over hair.
3. shave, brush teeth, whatever for several minutes.
4. rinse, rinse, rinse in cold water for 3-5m.

I usually have noticably shiny hair.

[Tap Dancer]

Your hair are not shiny because you are leaving the rinse on them. ( if this isn't what you do, I apologize for understanding something different but I think that that is what you do).

The purpose of a vinegar rinse is to clarify hair after wash. So you have to use the vinegar rinse on you hair and then to rinse this vinegar rinse with water. ( I leave it on my hair for 1-2 minutes). If you make a last rinse with totally cold water too, then your hair will shine again like ... the sun. ;)

I'll try it that way next time. Thanks! :)

[ratgirldjh]

Now you've got me thinking of making my ACV rinse stronger.
Currently I use 1 teaspoon of ACV for a liter of water

I use soap based cleaners

would 1 tablespoon ACV for a liter of water possibly work better?

I always rinse mine out ;)

[Tangles]

Tresemme was the worst conditioner I ever used *shrugs*

[Themyst]

Thanks for the suggestions. I actually started using henna and it's made a world of difference in my hair. It's so shiny now that don't really need to worry about it anymore.:)

[marialena]

I'll try it that way next time. Thanks! :)

And another tip. Rinse the vinegar rinse first with warm water and then do the final rinse with cold water in all your hair and scalp..:)