Ktani,
Have you been able to get Jarrah Honey?
It seems that they only sell it in Australia and I am in New York City, NY...I am eager to try it on my hair (as per your suggestions).
Where can I order from here in the USA?

Thanks a lot

Misty

Jarrah honey may be sold internationally but I sourced direct suppliers in Australia who sell and ship it internationally.

This is the post linked in #10 in the recommendations post in my signature.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=157257&postcount=1266

One of the biggest surprises to me, when I was researching the Vitamin C content of ingredients that someone had used in a honey lightening recipe earlier this year - an SMT actually, that was not microwaved but had temporarily lightened for them, was that aloe gel contains 3 x the amount of Vitamin C than raw lemon juice!

No wonder the person had problems with their results.

They have hennaed hair and got a redox reaction. Their hair colour lightened then redarkened.

That was not from the honey. They used a very large amout of aloe gel. The aloe gel caused the same reaction with the henna that lemon juice has been reported to for the same reason, IMO. Honey lightening has not been reported to cause the redarkening of hair colour.


Aloe gel Vitamin C content.
Aloe vera gel - about 350 mg per 8 oz or 240 ml (g) or 1 "cup.
http://www.aloeveracanada.ca/about_av.html

Raw lemon juice Vitamin C content
Lemon juice, raw - 112 mg in 1 cup or 244 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20VG.html


Hydrogen peroxide oxidizes Vitamin C and is depleted in doing so.

The peroxide produced by the honey in this case was fully depleted IMO.

".... if the honey contains vitamin C, the H2 O2 is used to oxidize the vitamin .... amount of H2 O2 is less."
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/H2O2.html

I poured over this thread all morning and decided to get honey a try and see if I could lighten my hair a shade or 2. The following is posted in my journal but, I wanted to share here also.

I spent the whole morning reading the honey thread. It was very interesting. And, of course, I had to try it on my hair after going to all the trouble to read the thread.

I mixed-
1 c. water (bring to boil)
1 chamomile tea bag (steeped in above water)
3/4 tsp. cinnamon
1/4 tsp. nutmeg
2 tbs. EVVO
1/3 c. honey
1/3 c. VO5 Pomegranate and grape seed conditioner

I mixed everything together after the water/tea cooled to room temperature and let it sit for about 30 minutes. I shampooed my hair with VO5 Tea Therapy clarifying shampoo and then, applied the mixture to my hair after I squeezed the excess water out. I piled my hair on my head and put on my shower cap and wrapped the whole mess in a towel to catch drips. I left the goop on for about 2 hours. I rinsed well with cool water and conditioned with the VO5 Pomegranate and grape, finished up all my other shower duties and then detangled and rinsed well again. I then applied same conditioner to the length of my hair and squeezed it through and left it.

Here are the before and after photos. I don't see any difference in the color. But, my hair is soft and shiny now. I'll try it again just because I like the feel of my hair after doing it! My hair has been dry since going through chemo and this really helped moisturize it. :D

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p64/maknana/hairstyles/beforeafter1-1.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p64/maknana/hairstyles/beforeafter2.jpg

[quote=harley mama;194222]I poured over this thread all morning and decided to get honey a try and see if I could lighten my hair a shade or 2. The following is posted in my journal but, I wanted to share here also.

I spent the whole morning reading the honey thread. It was very interesting. And, of course, I had to try it on my hair after going to all the trouble to read the thread.

I mixed-
1 c. water (bring to boil)
1 chamomile tea bag (steeped in above water)
3/4 tsp. cinnamon
1/4 tsp. nutmeg
2 tbs. EVVO
1/3 c. honey
1/3 c. VO5 Pomegranate and grape seed conditioner

I mixed everything together after the water/tea cooled to room temperature and let it sit for about 30 minutes. I shampooed my hair with VO5 Tea Therapy clarifying shampoo and then, applied the mixture to my hair after I squeezed the excess water out. I piled my hair on my head and put on my shower cap and wrapped the whole mess in a towel to catch drips. I left the goop on for about 2 hours. I rinsed well with cool water and conditioned with the VO5 Pomegranate and grape, finished up all my other shower duties and then detangled and rinsed well again. I then applied same conditioner to the length of my hair and squeezed it through and left it.

Here are the before and after photos. I don't see any difference in the color. But, my hair is soft and shiny now. I'll try it again just because I like the feel of my hair after doing it! My hair has been dry since going through chemo and this really helped moisturize it. :D

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p64/maknana/hairstyles/beforeafter1-1.jpg


harley mama

Thank you for posting your recipe, method and pictures.

I am glad that you read the thread but sorry that you did not read the new recommendations in the first post and in my signature.

I am also glad for you that your hair feels so good.

I will break this down for you to help you out.

1. Conditioner is no longer recommended for honey lightening.
It contains ingredients that can and no doubt in my mind, did interfere with your results.

2. Your proportions were incorrect for the amount of water you needed to dilute the honey.
1/3 cup honey would need 16 oz of water to be properly diluted. Based on 1 cup US being 8 oz, you used 1/2 of the water actually needed (excluding however much water is in the conditioner). The 4 to 1 dilution is based on weight.
http://www.traditionaloven.com/conversions_of_measures/honey_measurements.html

3. Only distilled water is recommended. You can use chamomile tea - brewed and cooled as you did but with distilled water.

4. The recipe is recommended to be left to sit for 1 hour before being applied to the hair to let the fully diluted honey produce its maximum peroxide value.

Here is the shortened version of the recommendations.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=179252&postcount=1628

Can filtered water be used?

Can filtered water be used?

harley mama

No, filtered water is not the same.

The idea is that the water be free of minerals.

Distilled or deionized water is best.

Distilled is easier to find.

Hydrogen peroxide can decompose in contact with certain metals, iron, manganese and copper.

See #2
"The primary factors contributing to H2O2 decomposition include: increasing temperature …. increasing contamination (especially transition metals such as copper, manganese or iron ...."
http://www.h2o2.com/intro/faq.html#2 (http://www.h2o2.com/intro/faq.html)

OK, I think I have all the stuff to make the new and improved version of this potion!
I plan to try it again in a day or two. The up side is that even if I don't get lighter
hair, it will be soft and shiny!

My photo comparison is not really a good one either. In the before photos, my hair
is day3 and has a lot of oil on it.

ktani, thanks for all the helpful directions. After reading all morning, my brain was about to explode! I didn't actually measure the honey. I just used what was left in the bottle and guessed the amount. I also added the cinnamon and nutmeg to the steeped tea while it was still warm hoping to dissolve it better. I will be interested to see how the recipe does using the proper mixing techniques!

ETA- I do think my tone is a little redder, which is OK. I love red tones and would actually like it to be even a little redder. IS there a way to tweak the recipe to help bring the red out more?

OK, I think I have all the stuff to make the new and improved version of this potion!
I plan to try it again in a day or two. The up side is that even if I don't get lighter
hair, it will be soft and shiny!

My photo comparison is not really a good one either. In the before photos, my hair
is day3 and has a lot of oil on it.

ktani, thanks for all the helpful directions. After reading all morning, my brain was about to explode! I didn't actually measure the honey. I just used what was left in the bottle and guessed the amount. I also added the cinnamon and nutmeg to the steeped tea while it was still warm hoping to dissolve it better. I will be interested to see how the recipe does using the proper mixing techniques!

ETA- I do think my tone is a little redder, which is OK. I love red tones and would actually like it to be even a little redder. IS there a way to tweak the recipe to help bring the red out more?

harley mama

You are welcome.

If you have oil or product residue on your hair - that can act as a barrier to the treatment as well - so it is best to wash the hair first in that case and dry it to slightly damp before applying a treatment.

Also remove any traces of anything like aloe gel that contains Vitamin C.

If your hair has no product residues or oil on it, you can apply a honey lightenning treatment to unwashed, dry hair.

I do not recommend nutmeg bcause it has more irritiant potential than cinnamon, which can be irritant enough on its own.

Patch test and try ground cardamom - it has been reported to work well but can be an irritant too.

Adding any of the peroxide containing ingredients to still warm tea is not recommended, as the heat can negatively affect the peroxide.

Red is a natural result of lightening - it goes like this generally - dark brown black - to brown - to red - to gold - to blonde.

As you lighten, with anything, most hair will go through those stages. You can stop at the point you desire.

When I submitted the recommendations post linked in my signature for approval as an Article, one of the mods cleaned up my grammar and punctuation, and made the entire piece flow and read better, IMO.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=61

This is a public thank you to that mod.

More on the factors that can cause hydrogen peroxide to decompose.

"The primary factors contributing to H2O2 decomposition include: increasing temperature .... increasing contamination (especially transition metals such as copper, manganese or iron); exposure to ultraviolet light. ....
http://www.h2o2.com/intro/faq.html#2 (http://www.h2o2.com/intro/faq.html#2)

"Heat, U.V. light .... certain minerals will cause h2o2 to decompose. This can be very gradual or rapid, depending upon the amount of heat, U.V. light ...."
http://www.dfwx.com/h2o2wholesale.html

"Hydrogen peroxide .... contact with heat .... usually decompose into water and oxygen ...."
http://web1.caryacademy.org/chemistry/rushin/StudentProjects/CompoundWebSites/2000/HydrogenPeroxide/home.htm

So, as a reminder, for honey lightening, I recommemd no external heat, like a blow dryer (body heat is fine), and no sunlight.

Distilled water, which is mineral free, is the only water I recommend.

If you use herbal tea, cool it to room temperature, before adding any other ingredients of the honey lighting recipe.

More on hydrogen peroxide and light.

H202 MSDS
"Store drums .... cool areas out of direct sunlight"
https://www.accessbutler.com/msdsimages/A0001375.pdf (https://www.accessbutler.com/msdsimages/A0001375.pdf)

"MSDS Name: Hydrogen Peroxide 30-50%
Store protected from light."
http://avogadro.chem.iastate.edu/MSDS/H2O2_30pct.htm

"Sunlight can cause decomposition of the peroxide solution ...."
http://www.croberts.com/h2o2.htm (http://www.croberts.com/h2o2.htm)

"UV light causes H2O2 to decompose."
http://www.vitalitymagazine.com/earthwatch_4 (http://www.vitalitymagazine.com/earthwatch_4)

"Hydrogen peroxide decomposition .... promoted by exposure to ultraviolet light."
http://www.solvaychemicals.us/static/wma/pdf/6/6/1/2/H5-2039.pdf (http://www.solvaychemicals.us/static/wma/pdf/6/6/1/2/H5-2039.pdf)

Here are 2 links on honey and crystallization.

While the honey is still good, I do not recommend heating it to bring it back to a liquid state for honey lightening.

There is always the risk IMO, that too much heat can negatively affect the enzyme that produces hydrogen peroxide, although it would take a high heat over an extended period of time to do that.

Honey should be stored away from heat, light and moisture.

"Store honey .... room temperature .... the lid on tightly.
http://www.honeybeecentre.com/qs/page/4992/4983/57 (http://www.honeybeecentre.com/qs/page/4992/4983/57)

If you have a honey that has crystallized, I recommend buying a new liquid honey for honey lightening and storing it in a cool dark cupboard.

Honey crystallization
http://www.honey.com/downloads/crystallization.pdf (http://www.honey.com/downloads/crystallization.pdf)

http://scienceline.org/2007/04/09/ask-westly-crystallizedhoney/ (http://scienceline.org/2007/04/09/ask-westly-crystallizedhoney/)

Pasteurization and honey.

"Pasteurized honey
Pasteurization of honey .... marketing issue not a health issue.
.... heating process in pasteurization extends the shelf life of honey by destroying the natural "seed" crystals .... cause granulation and fermentation. Natural sugar tolerant yeasts are present in honey and .... will grow if .... moisture level is too high (over 18%) and storage temperature too warm. Honey .... more likely to ferment after it has granulated .... to prevent both granulation and fermentation .... pasteurization process is used to kill the sugar tolerant yeasts.

.... commercial equipment at packing establishments .... made to heat honey quickly to 160 degrees F (71 degrees C) for four minutes .... then cool it quickly through a heat exchanger. Without this equipment to heat and cool honey rapidly .... quality of the heated honey would be lower." http://www.honeycouncil.ca/users/folder.asp?FolderID=4844 (http://www.honeycouncil.ca/users/folder.asp?FolderID=4844)

The above link has been temporarily disabled while The Honey Council does site repairs. I saved the text in my research stash.

Pasteurized honey has been reported to work just as well as raw honey in honey lightening.



Pasteurization does not destroy the enzyme in honey that produces peroxide, based on the reported results.

It appears that there can be more than one method used to pasteurize honey.

"A recommended temperature for pasteurization of honey .... 145°F for 30 minutes. .... this might seem to present no problems, but it must be remembered .... unless flash heating and immediate cooling are used, many hours .... required for a batch of honey to cool from 145° to a safe temperature."
http://maarec.cas.psu.edu/bkCD/Products_Hive/honey_com.html

"Of all the enzymes in honey .... glucose-oxidase .... the most volatile (most sensitive for heating) Heating for 40 minutes at 70°C (160°F) .... eliminate glucose-oxidase."
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/H2O2.html

Glucose oxidase is the exzyme in honey that produces hydrogen peroxide.



There have been enough reports in Honey, in all 5 threads so far, to indicate that cheap pasteurized honeys have worked just as well as raw honey in honey lightening.

I think that most pasteurized honey on the market today is processed with the 4 minute vs the 30 minute method. This would account for the successful reports, IMO.

Some recent reports in the Pictures Post #15, in my signature link.

Jan in ID - on virgin hair - with the corrected 4 to 1 dilution - after 5 treatments - with ground cinnamon and only 1/2 tblsp EVOO, no conditioner and the conditioner of her hair, after 5 treaments
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=191116&postcount=1721

HalcyonDays - on virgin hair - with the 4 to 1 dilution using tap water - after 1 treatment - left on the hair for 2 hours - just water and honey. The lighting is dark in the before picture, so I requested a replacement picture.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=179618&postcount=1633

HalcyonDays - on the condition of her hair following honey lightening and a replacement before picture.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=179696&postcount=1635

soleluna - on hennaed hair - the correct 4 to 1 dilution - after 1 treatment - with distilled water and only 1 tsp ground cinnamon - no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=164308&postcount=1375

soleluna - recipe details and the condition of her hair following honey lightening Note: the correct amount of honey used was 2 tablespoons - there was an error made in transcribing the recipe
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=164349&postcount=1377

LadyPolaris - on hennaed hair - after 4 treatments - the correct 4 to 1 dilution by weight, with distilled water, ground cinnamon and EVOO - no conditioner and the condition of her hair following 4 honey lightening treatments
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=180750&postcount=1651

Alley Cat - on chemically dyed, almost black, previously hennaed hair - 4 to 1 dilution - after 9 treatments - 8 with no conditioner - 3 with ground cinnamon - the last 5 with just water and honey, the 3 most recent with distilled water and the correct 4 to 1 dilution
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=167875&postcount=1492

Alley Cat - on the condition of her hair following her 9th honey lightening treatment - this one with Jarrah honey, which has a very high peroxide value"
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=176704&postcount=1596

Hello, I'm new to this WONDERFUL forum, and I'm a huge honey fan. Let me share my experience on honey lightening.

I'm after 2 treatments. I use Polish WILDFLOWER HONEY (from an apiarist) and mix it with tap water. I don't calculate the amount of honey or water. The final mixture looks like a watery conditioner. It doesn't drip, though. I apply it to damp hair (virgin, middle blond), and leave it on for 2/3 hours. Finally, I use a shampoo and a white vinegar rinse.
The result of these two treatments is a miracle. My hair is significantly lighter. (All my friends and family members have noticed the change in the colour and shade.) It's well conditioned and shiny. I've experienced very dry and stiff ends, nevertheless repeated shampooing effectively resolves the problem

Today, I bought a jar of coconut oil, and I'm going to add it to my mixture next time. I hope to see more results :).
Thanks.

Hello, I'm new to this WONDERFUL forum, and I'm a huge honey fan. Let me share my experience on honey lightening.

I'm after 2 treatments. I use Polish WILDFLOWER HONEY (from an apiarist) and mix it with tap water. I don't calculate the amount of honey or water. The final mixture looks like a watery conditioner. It doesn't drip, though. I apply it to damp hair (virgin, middle blond), and leave it on for 2/3 hours. Finally, I use a shampoo and a white vinegar rinse.
The result of these two treatments is a miracle. My hair is significantly lighter. (All my friends and family members have noticed the change in the colour and shade.) It's well conditioned and shiny. I've experienced very dry and stiff ends, nevertheless repeated shampooing effectively resolves the problem

Today, I bought a jar of coconut oil, and I'm going to add it to my mixture next time. I hope to see more results :).
Thanks.

kokuryu

Welcome to LHC and Honey.

Thank you for posting.

You did exactly what you needed to do to get rid of the honey residue.

I am glad for you that your hair is in good condition and that you got such noticeable lightening.

I still think that distilled water and measuring is a better idea, though.

Welcome to LHC and Honey.


Thank you!:)


Here's my BEFORE/AFTER picture:

http://img45.imageshack.us/my.php?image=honeykokuryudx6.png

Thank you!:)


Here's my BEFORE/AFTER picture:

http://img45.imageshack.us/my.php?image=honeykokuryudx6.jpg

I changed your png extension to jpg - the png extensions do not open.

Could you please try to post your pictures again?

kokuryu

IMO, if you had no drips with your recipe, the honey was not fully diluted.

I think that you will get better results following the 4 to 1 dilution, by weight, next time and applying the treatment to dry hair that has no residues or oil, or anything with Vitamin C in it (I do not know your hair routine - this is my standard honey lightening advice).
That should give you less drips.

Also let the mix with distilled water, instead of tap water, sit for 1 hour at room temperature, before applying it to your hair.

You should only need to leave it on your hair for 1 hour, with your hair pinned up and covered with plastic.

I honeyed yesterday with okay results. I followed the directions, to the letter and used the same Western Family honey I've used before (same bottle).

I got good lightening results on the length, but from the scalp down about 4" it stayed really dark. I was careful to saturate my head really well at the roots, but I'm not seeing a difference there. Is there a procedure that's used for just lightening the "roots?"

Iz

I honeyed yesterday with okay results. I followed the directions, to the letter and used the same Western Family honey I've used before (same bottle).

I got good lightening results on the length, but from the scalp down about 4" it stayed really dark. I was careful to saturate my head really well at the roots, but I'm not seeing a difference there. Is there a procedure that's used for just lightening the "roots?"

Iz

Islandgrrl

Thank you for reporting your new results.

This kind of result has been reported before.

I suggest that you apply the treatment on dry hair and leave some extra aside.

Then, before you pin up and cover your hair with plastic, apply more of the treatment to the root area with a tint, blush or pastry brush.

That is recommended application for specific areas.

Kokuryu,

Your lightening is incredible and your hair is gorgeous!!!!

Thank you!:)


Here's my BEFORE/AFTER picture:

http://img45.imageshack.us/my.php?image=honeykokuryudx6.png

kokuryu

For some reason, I could not open this on the first try.
I could this time, no problem - my internet has been acting up all afternoon. I was sure that it was the extension png that was the problem.

Fantastic results, IMO.

I still stand by the distilled water and the 4 to 1 dilution - but this worked beautifully for you, so there is no argument.

I just think that recommendations, based on the research and successful reports, are preferable to follow.

I will add your results to the Pictures Post and your honey to the Successful Honeys List.

Ktani,

Thanks for the advice. FWIW, I always apply to dry hair. I've found better results this way.

At a 4:1 dilution, my mixture is very, very wet and very, very drippy. Is this correct?

My method is to mix into a very large glass measuring cup, wait the requisite hour, and then dunk the length of my hair into the cup to saturate. Then I lean over a huge bowl and pour the remaining solution over my head, being careful to saturate everything. Having the bowl for the runoff and drips allows me to repour as many times as needed to saturate all my hair. Pin it up, add plastic, add towel, add good book and a one hour timer. I don't usually shampoo after, just rinse like a madwoman. I don't usually have issues with residue, either, just super moisturized and if I'm lucky, lighter hair!

Aside from the lightening, which is really the point, honey does do amazing things for my hair in terms of how moisturized it feels - it's awesome...better than anything else I've ever used.

I'll try again, probably tomorrow night, with a new raw blackberry honey I picked up this morning.

Ktani,

Thanks for the advice. FWIW, I always apply to dry hair. I've found better results this way.

At a 4:1 dilution, my mixture is very, very wet and very, very drippy. Is this correct?

My method is to mix into a very large glass measuring cup, wait the requisite hour, and then dunk the length of my hair into the cup to saturate. Then I lean over a huge bowl and pour the remaining solution over my head, being careful to saturate everything. Having the bowl for the runoff and drips allows me to repour as many times as needed to saturate all my hair. Pin it up, add plastic, add towel, add good book and a one hour timer. I don't usually shampoo after, just rinse like a madwoman. I don't usually have issues with residue, either, just super moisturized and if I'm lucky, lighter hair!

Aside from the lightening, which is really the point, honey does do amazing things for my hair in terms of how moisturized it feels - it's awesome...better than anything else I've ever used.

I'll try again, probably tomorrow night, with a new raw blackberry honey I picked up this morning.

Islandgrrl

You are welcome.

It is your method that is causing the problem - you are getting full saturation on the length and ends and the treatment is running off your root area and pooling down, IMO.

And yes, it is supposed to be very liquid - it is 4 to 1 water to honey by weight.

Try applying the mix with a brush to the roots first.

Then use a squirt bottle with a wide nozzle, if you are adding spice, and completely saturate your hair from the middle to the ends.

Then reapply more to the top before you put your hair up.

Thank you!:)


Here's my BEFORE/AFTER picture:

http://img45.imageshack.us/my.php?image=honeykokuryudx6.png

An encore of just honey and water on virgin, middle blonde hair.

IMO, amazing results!

kokuryu

IMO, if you had no drips with your recipe, the honey was not fully diluted.

I think that you will get better results following the 4 to 1 dilution, by weight, next time and applying the treatment to dry hair that has no residues or oil, or anything with Vitamin C in it (I do not know your hair routine - this is my standard honey lightening advice).
That should give you less drips.

Also let the mix with distilled water, instead of tap water, sit for 1 hour at room temperature, before applying it to your hair.

You should only need to leave it on your hair for 1 hour, with your hair pinned up and covered with plastic.

Thank you, ktani!

I'm perfectly sure, that the honey was fully diluted. I used a really small amount of the mixture (approx. 7 tablespoons), thus there was no dripping. Then I put a bathing cup and a towel.

I apply the treatment to wet hair, as it produces more hydrogen peroxide that way (confirmed by a chemist), and my hair feels great and the colour is much lighter, I'm really satisfied :D.

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/4044/honeykokuryudx6.png

I hope the link works for you.

Kokuryu,

Your lightening is incredible and your hair is gorgeous!!!!

An encore of just honey and water on virgin, middle blonde hair.

IMO, amazing results!

Thank you very much!

koyuryu

Thank you for the extra link.

As I said, I was able, finally, to open the first one.

Your chemist is correct - if the treatment was not left to sit for 1 hour before being applied to the hair.

The treatment would need the hair to be wet to help produce peroxide.

Those were the first set of recommendations. I changed them to make it easier to apply the treatment and get the best possible results.

When the treatment is left to sit for 1 hour, at the 4 to 1 dilution by weight, before application, the peroxide produced by the honey is at full strengh and can be applied to dry hair.

"After 1 hour .... the maximum amount of hydrogen-peroxide is present."
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/H2O2.html

I've spent 2 days reading through this whole thread. I did the honey recipe yesterday, left it on for an hour and got some brightening of my dark blonde hair. I'm excited to try it again...and again!

I have a question though, what about highligtening? Can I use this mixture to paint onto areas to do highlights? Has anyone tried it?? I haven't seen any posts stating that anyone has tried it. What do you all do for highlights? I used to highlight my hair about 1x a year, to just brighten it slightly and I hate having any regrowth from an "all-over" color, so that is why I prefer highlights.

Hints? Thoughts? Thanks! So glad I found this board a few weeks ago (though I was just able to finally register over this past weekend.) I'm learning SOO much~

I've spent 2 days reading through this whole thread. I did the honey recipe yesterday, left it on for an hour and got some brightening of my dark blonde hair. I'm excited to try it again...and again!

I have a question though, what about highligtening? Can I use this mixture to paint onto areas to do highlights? Has anyone tried it?? I haven't seen any posts stating that anyone has tried it. What do you all do for highlights? I used to highlight my hair about 1x a year, to just brighten it slightly and I hate having any regrowth from an "all-over" color, so that is why I prefer highlights.

Hints? Thoughts? Thanks! So glad I found this board a few weeks ago (though I was just able to finally register over this past weekend.) I'm learning SOO much~

Ketol

Welcome to LHC and honey!

Thank you for posting and reporting on your results.

How is the condition of your hair post honey lightening?

The full recommendations are easier to read in Article form here.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=61

Yes, I see no reason why you cannot use honey lightening for hi-lighting specific areas.

The closest people have come to doing that is applying the treatment to specific areas but not as hi-lights, just to concentrate the treatment on areas that were darker and it has been reported to work.

I suggest that you mix the treatment, let it sit for 1 hour, all at room temperature and use a tint or blush brush to apply it to dry hair on the areas you want to lighten, cover them with foil, to keep them from getting the rest of the surrounding hair from getting wet, then pin up the rest of your hair, cover with plastic and leave in on for about an hour or so.

You may or may not need to use the plastic on top of the foil, but I would.

Hi and thank you for the ww :-)

That is what I was thinking of doing, just what you explained...doing certain areas with a brush, covering with foil and let it sit. I will try it next week and report back! (when my kids aren't here.... lol)

My hair is in great condition (for <i>me</i> anyway). When I first found the boards, I started trying the CWC and wow, my hair is loving it. I have/had very dry ends, but my scalp gets oily...and looked like crap, so I shampooed every day. I'm trying to get to every-other as a start..but I still get the greasy looking roots. YUCK. And with the summer humidity, oh boy, just makes it worse. But I will continue on.

Sorry, I got off on a tangent. My hair is soft, silky and shiny. It's LOOKING great, for the first time in many years and I'm loving the feel and look of it now. I'm fascinated reading all the wonderful info and I'll take what applies or may work for me and leave the rest. Baby steps!

Yesterday I did the Honey, VO5 Condish, tsp EVOO so it was a 1:4 ratio. My hair felt fantastic and though I wouldn't say it is lighter, it is definitely brighter, and shinier, so all in all I'm happy. I would try it again but use LESS of the condish (probably half) and the rest water and try that. Oh, and add in a spoonful of the Cinnamon.

Thank you for prompt and friendly response. If I EVER finish THIS thread, I'll move on to others! LOL.

Hi and thank you for the ww :-)

That is what I was thinking of doing, just what you explained...doing certain areas with a brush, covering with foil and let it sit. I will try it next week and report back! (when my kids aren't here.... lol)

My hair is in great condition (for <i>me</i> anyway). When I first found the boards, I started trying the CWC and wow, my hair is loving it. I have/had very dry ends, but my scalp gets oily...and looked like crap, so I shampooed every day. I'm trying to get to every-other as a start..but I still get the greasy looking roots. YUCK. And with the summer humidity, oh boy, just makes it worse. But I will continue on.

Sorry, I got off on a tangent. My hair is soft, silky and shiny. It's LOOKING great, for the first time in many years and I'm loving the feel and look of it now. I'm fascinated reading all the wonderful info and I'll take what applies or may work for me and leave the rest. Baby steps!

Yesterday I did the Honey, VO5 Condish, tsp EVOO so it was a 1:4 ratio. My hair felt fantastic and though I wouldn't say it is lighter, it is definitely brighter, and shinier, so all in all I'm happy. I would try it again but use LESS of the condish (probably half) and the rest water and try that. Oh, and add in a spoonful of the Cinnamon.

Thank you for prompt and friendly response. If I EVER finish THIS thread, I'll move on to others! LOL.

ketol

Thank you for your recipe and I am very pleased for you that your hair is now in such good condition.

You do not need to read this whole thread.

You just need the newest recommendations, in my signature or in the first post.

Conditioner is no longer recommended.

The 4 to 1 dilution is by weight. Honey is heavier than water.

1/8 cup honey needs 3/4 cup distilled water.
50 ml of honey needs 200 ml distilled water etc.

Here is the short version of the recommendations, from the first post.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=179252&postcount=1628 (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=179252&postcount=1628)

I think that you will get better results following the new recommendations with the correct dilution, no conditioner and using distilled water.

I look forward to your new results.

Ktani, since you're the Goddess of Honey, I have a question.

I adore what honey does for my hair - even if the lightening effects are progressing slowly. The moisture and shine I get are well worth the efforts. So....

Can honey be used as a leave-in treatment without stickiness problems, and if so, how?

Iz

Ktani, since you're the Goddess of Honey, I have a question.

I adore what honey does for my hair - even if the lightening effects are progressing slowly. The moisture and shine I get are well worth the efforts. So....

Can honey be used as a leave-in treatment without stickiness problems, and if so, how?

Iz

Islandgrrl

I love the way you start a question, lol.

I only go so far as saying that I am a Honey Geek, lol.

Honey has been used successfully as a leave-in - by Viviane, who lived in honey, literally, 24/7, for months, lightening her hair with it and using this way too.

Originally posted by Viviane
"Besides, if you dampen your hair out a bit and then add a pearl size amount of honey to your palms, rub vigorously and then slide your palms to hair and comb, it´s not sticky at all. It just keeps it all in place. Sticky happens with too much of the good stuff."
http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=1158943&postcount=1102 (http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=1158943&postcount=1102)

I have stopped lightening my hair for now. I put another colour in on Friday after getting sick of the greys coming in so much that even my hubby was noticing . The colour is lighter than the last one. I plan to continue using honey treatments not to lighten for now but I love the conditioning effect I get from them. So I plan to try using honey in conditioner not using the right measurements so I won't get lightening and maybe in the future I might try lightening again before I throw another colour in who knows. :shrug: Or I would even consider in a couple of weeks trying to lighten from where my hair is darker downwards though not sure how that would work out. The colour I put in was Auburn and the first couple of inches of my roots have come out much lighter and redder than the length.
Thanks for all your help ktani. :)

I have stopped lightening my hair for now. I put another colour in on Friday after getting sick of the greys coming in so much that even my hubby was noticing . The colour is lighter than the last one. I plan to continue using honey treatments not to lighten for now but I love the conditioning effect I get from them. So I plan to try using honey in conditioner not using the right measurements so I won't get lightening and maybe in the future I might try lightening again before I throw another colour in who knows. :shrug: Or I would even consider in a couple of weeks trying to lighten from where my hair is darker downwards though not sure how that would work out. The colour I put in was Auburn and the first couple of inches of my roots have come out much lighter and redder than the length.
Thanks for all your help ktani. :)

Alley Cat

You are most welcome.

If you plan on leaving the honey conditioner mix on for any length of time - like an hour - microwave the honey first, separately, over 10 seconds, under 1 minute.

That will destroy the enzyme that produces the peroxide.

Some people have reported that aside from making the honey runnier, it does not condition quite as well when microwaved.

An alternative to microwaving would be to add a few drops of raw potato juice, which contains catalase. It acts like Vitamin C, in terms of depleting the peroxide. No one I am aware of, has tried this.

If you leave the honey conditioner mix on for about 10-15 minutes, I do not believe that it will lighten very much at all.

A third option would be to use a rich conditioner. The extra conditioning ingredients, the waxes and film formers, should interfere with lightening.

Aussie Cleanse and Mend conditioner has been reported to do just that, very effectively.

Good luck.

Alley Cat

You are most welcome.

If you plan on leaving the honey conditioner mix on for any length of time - like an hour - microwave the honey first, separately, over 10 seconds, under 1 minute.

That will destroy the enzyme that produces the peroxide.

Some people have reported that aside from making the honey runnier, it does not condition quite as well when microwaved.

An alternative to microwaving would be to add a few drops of raw potato juice, which contains catalase. It acts like Vitamin C, in terms of depleting the peroxide. No one I am aware of, has tried this.

If you leave the honey conditioner mix on for about 10-15 minutes, I do not believe that it will lighten very much at all.

A third option would be to use a rich conditioner. The extra conditioning ingredients, the waxes and film formers, should interfere with lightening.

Aussie Cleanse and Mend conditioner has been reported to do just that, very effectively.

Good luck.

Thank you for that. Actually I have already washed my hair today and I did a honey and conditioner treatment and I did microwave it mainly because it came out of the fridge and it was cold [ winter here and I'm a baby].
My hair doesn't feel as conditioned as it did with just honey and water. I will think on what to do next . I don't really want to use to rich conditioner as it would get too expensive . Might do some trial and error and see what happens. :)
It still feels conditioned maybe I am just being fussy. :rolleyes: I like honey. :D

Thank you for that. Actually I have already washed my hair today and I did a honey and conditioner treatment and I did microwave it mainly because it came out of the fridge and it was cold [ winter here and I'm a baby].
My hair doesn't feel as conditioned as it did with just honey and water. I will think on what to do next . I don't really want to use to rich conditioner as it would get too expensive . Might do some trial and error and see what happens. :)
It still feels conditioned maybe I am just being fussy. :rolleyes: I like honey. :D

Alley Cat

I was afraid of that - it has been reported to do that.

I would save the Jarrah honey for lightening. It should keep indefinitely, stored in a cool dark cupboard.

If you can get Aussie Cleanse and Mend Conditioner, you might not need to microwave regular honey.

The Aussie conditioner did not alllow lightening at least twice that I know of, in reports.

The other thing is that at 10 minutes or so, you should not get much lightening with most conditioners.

It is not enough time for the honey to produce that much peroxide, IMO.

Ktani, thanks for the info re: honey as a leave in. I'll give it a try and report back!

Ktani, thanks for the info re: honey as a leave in. I'll give it a try and report back!

Islandgrrl

You are very welcome.

Remember though, not to use too much.

From what I read, that is the key to it not being sticky.

Hi again, ktani! I don't know if you remember, but I sent you a pm while your computer was down, mentioning that I was thinking of trying another honey lightening treatment, because using cassia leaves my hair darker than I like. Also, because I am a very curious person, and I wanted to see if the new recipes would work better on me than the old!

Here is the recipe I tried yesterday night:
1 tablespoon (0.75 ounce) honey-- Nature's Best Organic Honey. This is the same stuff I used originally, I finished off the bottle. Keep in mind that the honey is about 10 months older then when I first used it to lighten, though. It was NOT crystallized.
3/8 cup (3 ounces) room temperature tap water. I didn't have distilled, and I didn't want to lighten my hair too much, so I decided to stick with tap.
1 teaspoon cinnamon (I don't have cardamom, and I use cinnamon in my cassia treatments, so I know I do not have allergies to it)

The ingredients were stirred together, then put in a dark drawer for one hour (chose a drawer because I know peroxide can be deactivated by light, though maybe it's just sunlight). I then applied to my hair (about 24 hours after washing, the only thing in my hair was one drop of camellia oil), applying to the roots with an old, clean foundation brush, then applying the rest by dunking my hair into the cup. I put my hair in a bun with an aquapearl ketylo, covered with a plastic bag, and then with an opague shower cap. This was left on for about 55 minutes.
The mixture dripped down my neck a lot, and was very sticky when dried.

I washed my hair afterwards, and found the cinnamon to be pretty annoying to wash out-- I personally think if I were to do future honey treatments (I don't plan to), I would probably stop using cinnamon, and stick with an oil booster, or just honey and water. The honey and water rinsed out very easily, but I was still pulling out little pieces of cinnamon when rinsing my final conditioner.

Condition:
I finished with my normal leave-in, camellia oil-- but just a touch more than normal. My hair is very slightly dry today, but looks very nice, low frizz, and feels perfectly normal and healthy.

I tried to keep as many variables constant as possible in the pictures-- same lighting, same distance from camera, same shirt. I have some funky looking bun waves in the before picture that makes my hemline look weird. I used a wide tooth comb on my hair several times while drying to try and keep waves to a minimum, as they would disguise things a bit. My hair is normally straighter after bunning, so I tried to minimize waves.
Here are the pictures:
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k152/chloeishere/Honey1.jpg
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k152/chloeishere/Honey2.jpg

In comparison to my first honey treatment-- I believe it was honey + conditioner + extra virgin olive oil. I no longer remember exact proportions, but I believe it was 1:1:1, left on overnight in a shower cap.
Before and After
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k152/chloeishere/IMG_1439c.jpghttp://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k152/chloeishere/IMG_1457c.jpg

I am disregarding the second (accidental) lightening, as I'm really not sure what happened there. I did it using a modified SMT, with Fox's Shea Conditioning Cream added, but otherwise everything pretty much following the normal recipe. I had aloe gel in the recipe, so I don't understand now (with vitamin C in the aloe deactivating the honey enzymes that produce hydrogen peroxide) how it lightened, let alone how it lightened so signifigantly.
However, this was the color that resulted from that:
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k152/chloeishere/IMG_1728c.jpg

Hi again, ktani! I don't know if you remember, but I sent you a pm while your computer was down, mentioning that I was thinking of trying another honey lightening treatment, because using cassia leaves my hair darker than I like. Also, because I am a very curious person, and I wanted to see if the new recipes would work better on me than the old!

Here is the recipe I tried yesterday night:
1 tablespoon (0.75 ounce) honey-- Nature's Best Organic Honey. This is the same stuff I used originally, I finished off the bottle. Keep in mind that the honey is about 10 months older then when I first used it to lighten, though. It was NOT crystallized.
3/8 cup (3 ounces) room temperature tap water. I didn't have distilled, and I didn't want to lighten my hair too much, so I decided to stick with tap.
1 teaspoon cinnamon (I don't have cardamom, and I use cinnamon in my cassia treatments, so I know I do not have allergies to it)

The ingredients were stirred together, then put in a dark drawer for one hour (chose a drawer because I know peroxide can be deactivated by light, though maybe it's just sunlight). I then applied to my hair (about 24 hours after washing, the only thing in my hair was one drop of camellia oil), applying to the roots with an old, clean foundation brush, then applying the rest by dunking my hair into the cup. I put my hair in a bun with an aquapearl ketylo, covered with a plastic bag, and then with an opague shower cap. This was left on for about 55 minutes.
The mixture dripped down my neck a lot, and was very sticky when dried.

I washed my hair afterwards, and found the cinnamon to be pretty annoying to wash out-- I personally think if I were to do future honey treatments (I don't plan to), I would probably stop using cinnamon, and stick with an oil booster, or just honey and water. The honey and water rinsed out very easily, but I was still pulling out little pieces of cinnamon when rinsing my final conditioner.

Condition:
I finished with my normal leave-in, camellia oil-- but just a touch more than normal. My hair is very slightly dry today, but looks very nice, low frizz, and feels perfectly normal and healthy.

I tried to keep as many variables constant as possible in the pictures-- same lighting, same distance from camera, same shirt. I have some funky looking bun waves in the before picture that makes my hemline look weird. I used a wide tooth comb on my hair several times while drying to try and keep waves to a minimum, as they would disguise things a bit. My hair is normally straighter after bunning, so I tried to minimize waves.
Here are the pictures:
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k152/chloeishere/Honey1.jpg
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k152/chloeishere/Honey2.jpg

In comparison to my first honey treatment-- I believe it was honey + conditioner + extra virgin olive oil. I no longer remember exact proportions, but I believe it was 1:1:1, left on overnight in a shower cap.
Before and After
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k152/chloeishere/IMG_1439c.jpghttp://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k152/chloeishere/IMG_1457c.jpg

I am disregarding the second (accidental) lightening, as I'm really not sure what happened there. I did it using a modified SMT, with Fox's Shea Conditioning Cream added, but otherwise everything pretty much following the normal recipe. I had aloe gel in the recipe, so I don't understand now (with vitamin C in the aloe deactivating the honey enzymes that produce hydrogen peroxide) how it lightened, let alone how it lightened so signifigantly.
However, this was the color that resulted from that:
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k152/chloeishere/IMG_1728c.jpg

chloeishere

You always ask if I remember you.

Of course I do. I thought that I answered all pms when my computer was restored. I am sorry if I did not respond to yours.
Thank you for posting your new results, pictures and the condition of your hair.

Thank you also for taking such care to be so precise.

I can see some lightening.

I think that you would have possibly gotten more with distilled water.

As for your calculations, I get a different result.

.75 oz = 21.26 g x 4 = 85.4 = 1/4 cup for the water.
http://www.traditionaloven.com/conversions_of_measures/honey_measurements.html

Vitamin C does not deactivate the enzyme in honey that produces peroxide. Microwaving honey over 10 seconds, under 1 minute, destroys the enzyme.

Hydrogen peroxide oxidizes Vitamin C and is depleted when it does that.

If the honey in question produced enough peroxide, it could and obviously did, oxidize the Vitamin C in the aloe gel (it depends on how much gel you used and how much honey) and still have enough left over to lighten your hair.

chloeishere

You always ask if I remember you.

Well, I wouldn't want to presume! :D


...
As for your calculations, I get a different result.

.75 oz = 21.26 g x 4 = 85.4 = 1/4 cup for the water.
http://www.traditionaloven.com/conversions_of_measures/honey_measurements.html

Hmm, interesting. I did not convert to grams, simply stuck with ounces... 0.75 ounce x 4 = 3 ounces. That might have been a problem!


Hydrogen peroxide oxidizes Vitamin C and is depleted when it does that.

If the honey in question produced enough peroxide, it could and obviously did, oxidize the Vitamin C in the aloe gel (it depends on how much gel you used and how much honey) and still have enough left over to lighten your hair.

Hmm, I didn't use much aloe, probably more honey. However, it still doesn't seem like enough (especially given the use of conditioner) to explain the amount of lightening I got. One of life's little mysteries. :confused:

Well, I wouldn't want to presume! :D


Hmm, interesting. I did not convert to grams, simply stuck with ounces... 0.75 ounce x 4 = 3 ounces. That might have been a problem!



Hmm, I didn't use much aloe, probably more honey. However, it still doesn't seem like enough (especially given the use of conditioner) to explain the amount of lightening I got. One of life's little mysteries. :confused:

chloeishere

You are always very nice and polite, IMO.

Here is your original post that you linked in Honey II
http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=1435406&postcount=7

And here is the post that gives the recipe for the shea butter recipe you mixed.
http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=1435672&postcount=471

You "eyeballed" the recipe but added extra conditioner at one point which, IMO, gave you extra water to further dilute the honey. Honey and conditioner has been reported to lighten. That was the basis of the last 4 Honey threads and the first part of this one.

Conditioner in honey lightening though is unpredictable (conditioner ingredients that can interfere with lightening and the lack of enough water) and the reported results were much much slower and much more slight in most cases, than with just water and now distilled water.

The shea butter mix was not heavy enough to interfere with the lightening.

The single biggest difference to honey lightening recipes now, is the 4 to 1 dilution by weight of water to honey. Honey is heavier than water.

Next is no Vitamin C, then no conditioner and lastly, distilled water.

Alley Cat

I was afraid of that - it has been reported to do that.

I would save the Jarrah honey for lightening. It should keep indefinitely, stored in a cool dark cupboard.

If you can get Aussie Cleanse and Mend Conditioner, you might not need to microwave regular honey.

The Aussie conditioner did not alllow lightening at least twice that I know of, in reports.

The other thing is that at 10 minutes or so, you should not get much lightening with most conditioners.

It is not enough time for the honey to produce that much peroxide, IMO.

Thanks ktani . I have saved the jarrah I have other cheaper honey around and plan to keep the jarrah and have it stored in a cupboard . It has a used by date of May 2010 . I don't recall seeing Aussie Cleanse and Mend Conditioner:shrug:
My hair feels nicer tonight than yesterday go figure. :)

Alley Cat

You are welcome.

Good luck.

Please update on how things go.

chloeishere

I took another look at the mystery recipe, in case I overlooked anything.

Both shea butter and jojoba oil have peroxide values, though combined, it would not be as high as extra virgin olive oil can be, or anywhere near as high as most honeys can have.

None of the honey lightening boosters, including the spices, has a peroxide value as high as most honeys can have.

I think the peroxide provided by the jojoba oil and shea butter aided the honey by boosting it, helping it deal with the Vitamin C from the aloe gel and lighten your hair - so the shea mix did help with the results.

2 days ago, I did my 3rd honey treatment (same recipe: honey and tap water).
Here you can see the result:
http://img175.imageshack.us/my.php?image=3treatmentsbh0.png

2 days ago, I did my 3rd honey treatment (same recipe: honey and tap water).
Here you can see the result:
http://img175.imageshack.us/my.php?image=3treatmentsbh0.png

kokuryu

Fantastic results, IMO.

How is the condition of your hair after the 3rd treatment?

kokuryu

Fantastic results, IMO.

How is the condition of your hair after the 3rd treatment?

It did absolutely NO damage to my hair. It's so soft and shiny, like never before.

kokuryu

Thank you for the quick reply.

I have added your new results to the Pictures Post.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=133707&postcount=1095

2 days ago, I did my 3rd honey treatment (same recipe: honey and tap water).
Here you can see the result:
http://img175.imageshack.us/my.php?image=3treatmentsbh0.png

kokuryu

An encore of your beautiful results!

Thank you very much, ktani!

kokuryu

You are most welcome!

I am off to correct the spelling of your name in the Pictures Post.

For some reason, I keep misspelling it.

It is not a difficult name to spell, IMO.

It is me.

ETA: Corrected!

Kokuryu does have amazing results!
I do think that probably the tap water did have an adverse effect on the lightening. However, I was not going for a LOT of lightening, which is why I didn't bother trying to find some distilled. I also figured, because we have extremely tasty tap water in St. Louis, that our water is probably not as minerallized as most in the US. It does contain a fair bit of Calcium ions though, most likely. Which would certainly be enough to do *something*.

Perhaps another reason that the accidental second lightening treatment worked so well was because the water in the conditioner I used would be about as pure as distilled-- considering that the conditioners I used contained disodium EDTA, which is a chelator and would remove any metal ions within the conditioner. Assuming that the shea butter and jojoba oil were enough to counteract the vitamin C in the aloe gel, the mixture would have been well diluted, and have plenty of distilled water...

It's all food for thought!

Kokuryu does have amazing results!
I do think that probably the tap water did have an adverse effect on the lightening. However, I was not going for a LOT of lightening, which is why I didn't bother trying to find some distilled. I also figured, because we have extremely tasty tap water in St. Louis, that our water is probably not as minerallized as most in the US. It does contain a fair bit of Calcium ions though, most likely. Which would certainly be enough to do *something*.

Perhaps another reason that the accidental second lightening treatment worked so well was because the water in the conditioner I used would be about as pure as distilled-- considering that the conditioners I used contained disodium EDTA, which is a chelator and would remove any metal ions within the conditioner. Assuming that the shea butter and jojoba oil were enough to counteract the vitamin C in the aloe gel, the mixture would have been well diluted, and have plenty of distilled water...

It's all food for thought!

chloeishere

We are on the same page with the analysis.

Thank you for adding that the conditioner contained EDTA.

Yes, IMO, that would play a role too.

I did uderstand that you were testing the new recommendations this time, and were not looking to lighten very much.

kokuryu obviously has great tap water. She also uses a bathing cap, not a plastic bag, which ensures that her hair stays wet while the treatment is on her hair.

The primary metals in tap water that can negatively affect hydrogen peroxide are iron, copper and manganese.

The reason I recommend only distilled water, is the same reason in part, that I no longer recommend conditioner.

I am trying to eliminate as many problematic variables as I can, to make honey lightening easier.

That is why I also now recommend letting a treatment sit at room temperature for 1 hour, before application.

This lets the honey produce its maximum peroxide value in advance.

There were reported problems of plastic slipping, and parts of the hair drying, when the treatment was applied right away, and the hair had to be kept wet to produce peroxide, while on the hair.

My goal is to streamline the process, to get optimal results as quickly and comfortably as possible.

Alley Cat

You are welcome.

Good luck.

Please update on how things go.
Thanks will do. :)

Hi,
here are the parameters of the tap water I use:

pH: 7,70
Nitrates: 6,23 g NO 3/dm3 (standard < or = 50)
Iron: 0,01 mgFe/dm3 (standard < or = 0,2)
Manganese: 0,01 mgMn/dm3 (standard < or = 0,05)
Chloride: 39,9 mgCl/dm3 (standard < or = 250)
Sulphur: 83,7 mgSO43-/dm3 (standard < or = 250)
Fluoride: 0,15 mgF-/dm3 (standard < or = 1,5)

There are very low levels of primary metals, thus they do not affect hydrogen peroxide.

The bathing cap is a fabulous idea, that would be good for henna too!

Hi,
here are the parameters of the tap water I use:

pH: 7,70
Nitrates: 6,23 g NO 3/dm3 (standard < or = 50)
Iron: 0,01 mgFe/dm3 (standard < or = 0,2)
Manganese: 0,01 mgMn/dm3 (standard < or = 0,05)
Chloride: 39,9 mgCl/dm3 (standard < or = 250)
Sulphur: 83,7 mgSO43-/dm3 (standard < or = 250)
Fluoride: 0,15 mgF-/dm3 (standard < or = 1,5)

There are very low levels of primary metals, thus they do not affect hydrogen peroxide.

kokuryu

Thank you for this.

You have the perfect tap water for honey lightening, IMO.

And I think that your use of a bathing cap is innovative and brilliant.

Your results certainly show the efficiency of both, IMO.

Most tap water is not as good as yours, IMO, in terms of mineral content.

kokuryu
And I think that your use of a bathing cap is innovative and brilliant.

Thanks.
I have use a bathing cap before for henna and amla treatments.

kokuryu

Your mention and use of the bathing cap is the first time I have read about it on these boards for treatments.

With a bathing cap, a honey lightening treatment can be used right away, on wet hair, instead of letting it sit for 1 hour in advance of application, because the cap will ensure that the hair stays wet enough for the honey to keep producing peroxide, much better than plastic bags or wraps.

Thanks to you, a bathing cap provides a reliable, tested option, IMO.



I recommend distilled water over tap water for honey lightening. Your tap water is excellent but not all tap water is equal.

I do not honey lighten. I cover my grey/white with catnip tea but the tap water where I live, for example can go rusty. It runs clear most of the time but can dry with a rust colour on occasion and is safe to drink.

The rust can be from the water itself or the pipes it goes through, so even though the water itself may be fine, pipes can add iron to it.

I do not live where the information in this link is given, but it is generally applicable IMO, and does apply to the tap water where I do live.
"Iron and manganese .... minerals found in drinking water supplies .... minerals will not harm you .... they may cause reddish-brown or black stains on clothes or household fixtures.

Iron and manganese may be present in the water supply or .... caused by corroding pipes (iron or steel)."
http://www.bae.ncsu.edu/programs/extension/publicat/wqwm/he394.html

"iron atom becomes an Fe+3 ion and oxygen becomes an 0-2 ion .... quickly joins with an H+ ion to form water. These two elements combine to form iron oxide, or rust."
http://www.haverford.edu/educ/knight-booklet/mustitrust.htm



Distilled water is used in the method developed by the Food Control Laboratory in Amsterdam for testing honey for its peroxide value. When I researched why and found that certain metals can decompose hydrogen peroxide, I understand why it is used.

".... Food-Control Department laboratory in Amsterdam .... determine the content of glucose-oxidase in honey

Technical performance:

Distilled water is used "
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/H2O2.html

An encore of the updated Pictures Post
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=133707&postcount=1095

Here is a shortened version of the updated recommendations, in my signature.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=179252&postcount=1628

The Honey Article, an easier to read version of the post in my signature.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=61

This sounds really interesting. It's a bit to much for me to view all 102 pages ;-) . So could anyone tell me: what's the perfect method to bleach my henna/indigo parts of my hair? I think I've now 4 inches of my own dark to medium blond haircolour, but i want to see more!! Or is the only option to let my hair grow and then cut the dark parts off.

This sounds really interesting. It's a bit to much for me to view all 102 pages ;-) . So could anyone tell me: what's the perfect method to bleach my henna/indigo parts of my hair? I think I've now 4 inches of my own dark to medium blond haircolour, but i want to see more!! Or is the only option to let my hair grow and then cut the dark parts off.

Hi ignis and welcome to LHC and Honey.

Here is the Honey Article to start you off.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=61

It has all of the details you need to get started.

It is just 1 post long.

If you have any questions, after reading it, I will be happy to answer them.

There is a shorter version too, here.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=179252&postcount=1628

Here are some pictures of results to look at.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=133707&postcount=1095

From everything I have read about it, soap nut liquid used to wash hair, clothes etc. leaves no residue and is gentle, depending on the concentration one makes.

Used as a shampoo, I do not believe that it would be a problem for honey lightening or interfere with it, causing build-up.

I researched aritha and soap nuts in this thread.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=8449

Latest from the soap nut shells thread. Understanding how things work makes it easier to use them properly, IMO.

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=209321&postcount=91

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=209364&postcount=92

Information on Jarrah honey, known for its high peroxide value, and Jarrah honey suppliers.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=157257&postcount=1266

The newest blondes - reports resulting from honey lightening, from the Pictures Post #15, in my signature.
[/URL]

kokuryu - on virgin, mid-blonde hair - using only tap water and honey, unmeasured - after 3 treatments
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=202532&postcount=1799 (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=198483&postcount=1765)

kokuryu - on the condition of her hair after 3 treatments
[URL]http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=202876&postcount=1801

Jan in ID - on mid-brown virgin hair - with the corrected 4 to 1 dilution - after 3 more treatments - with ground cinnamon and only 1/2 tblsp EVOO, no conditioner and the conditioner of her hair, after 5 treaments
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=191116&postcount=1721

HalcyonDays - on dark mid-brown virgin hair - with the 4 to 1 dilution using tap water - after 1 treatment - left on the hair for 2 hours - just water and honey. The lighting is dark in the before picture, so I requested a replacement picture.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=179618&postcount=1633

HalcyonDays - on the condition of her hair following honey lightening and a replacement before picture
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=179696&postcount=1635

Honey lightening on hennaed and henndigoed hair - results reported, from the Pictures Post #15 in my signature.

mellie - latest pictures on multiple layers of Rainbow Dark Brown Henna - the 4 to 1 dilution - no lemon, no peroxide boosters and no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=109246&postcount=572

bizarrogirl - on henndigoed hair (baq henna) and then on multiple henna layers with the 4 to 1 dilution - with ground cinnamon
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=109432&postcount=586

bizarrogirl - picture details
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bizarrogirl/sets/72157594199905645/detail/

GlennaGirl - on henndigoed hair - the 4 to 1 dilution with ground cinnamon
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=111943&postcount=653

GlennaGirl - picture details
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=111987&postcount=656

GlennaGirl - recipe details
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=111762&postcount=643

GlennaGirl - on her colour change with the 4 to 1 dilution
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=112224&postcount=676

GlennaGirl - latest signature picture - henna following - the 4 to 1 dilution - 2 more treatments - 1 with ground cinnamon, 1 with ground cardamom - 1 with no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=133292&postcount=6

DolphinPrincess - finally getting results - on henndigoed hair with the 4 to 1 dilution - with ground cardamom, no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=120769&postcount=916

kimki - on hennaed hair - with the 4 to 1 dilution after 2 treatments, 1 with ground cinnamon - no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=122653&postcount=958

soleluna - on hennaed hair (baq Egyptian henna) - the correct 4 to 1 dilution - after 1 treatment - with distilled water and only 1 tsp ground cinnamon - no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=164308&postcount=1375

soleluna - recipe details and the condition of her hair following honey lightening Note: the correct amount of honey used was 2 tablespoons - there was an error made in transcribing the recipe
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=164349&postcount=1377

More results reported on hennaed and hendigoed hair from the Pictures Post
[/URL]
LadyPolaris - on hennaed hair - after 4 treatments - the correct 4 to 1 dilution by weight, with distilled water, ground cinnamon and EVOO - no conditioner and the condition of her hair following 4 honey lightening treatments
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=180750&postcount=1651 (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=176471&postcount=1586)

wintersun99 - on henndigoed hair - the 4 to 1 dilution, with distilled water and cinnamon - no conditioner
[URL]http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=176850&postcount=1602

wintersun99 - on the condition of her hair following honey lightening
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=177909&postcount=1610

Short version of the recommendations in my signature.

Patch test any of the ingredients not previously used on scalp or skin.

1. Choose a honey - the Successful Honeys List
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=119128&postcount=856itamin

"If one cannot be found - try a dark coloured honey blend - raw or pasteurized - both have been reported to work equally well. Dark coloured blends were reported in research, to have higher peroxide levels than lighter coloured blends. A dark coloured, single source honey, does not necessarily have a high peroxide value - it depends on the plant source."

Jarrah honey - highly recommended - it has a very high peroxide value. More information and suppliers can be found here.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=157257&postcount=1266

Some honeys naturally contain higher levels of Vitamin C. Avoid using Anzer, buckwheat, linden flower, locust flower, mint and thyme honeys.

2. Use distilled water only. It contains no minerals. Minerals can deplete the recipe peroxide (so can Vitamin C, see #5). Conditioner is no longer recommended for honey lightening. Its ingredients and lack of water content can interfere with results. The same applies to coconut cream and milk (they contain minerals and can contain Vitamin C, as well as not enough water).

3. Use the 4 to 1 dilution (it is based on 4 x the amount of water to honey by weight) - e.g. 1/8 cup honey needs 3/4 cup distilled water, 50 ml honey needs 200 ml distilled water etc.
http://www.traditionaloven.com/conversions_of_measures/honey_measurements.html

4. Do not apply heat to any of the recipe ingredients at any time, except herbal tea if used, that is cooled to room temperature before adding any other ingredients. Peroxide containing boosters are ground cardamom, ground cinnamon, extra virgin olive oil and coconut oil.

5. Do not add lemon juice, or any other ingredient that contains Vitamin C to a recipe, like tomato products, which are no longer recommended. Hydrogen peroxide oxidizes Vitamin C, and is depleted in doing so.

6. Mix the treatment at room temperature and let it sit for 1 hour, also at room temperature, to allow the honey to produce its maximum peroxide value.

7. Apply the treatment to dry hair if there is no aloe gel on it - aloe gel contains Vitamin C, or an unrinsed out rinse with Vitamin C, heavy residue, or a large amount of oil on the hair (a large amount of oil will act as a barrier to the water). If there is, wash the hair first then dry it to slightly damp. You will get less drips on dry hair. The treatment can be applied with a tint, blush, or pastry brush or a squirt bottle.

8. Pin up, then cover the hair with plastic, to keep it out of the way and contain drips. Leave the treatment on the hair for about 1 hour.

Dilution, residue, rinses, and Vitamin C use, as well as the honey can affect honey lightening results.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=2125&page=14

Thank you for all your help! Just one more question, I thought you said that the peroxide effect only occurs within the first one hour after combining water and honey together. So why would we want to let it sit on the counter for one hour before applying? Or did I understand that wrong? Oh and I only need to let it sit if applying to wet hair?

Thank you for all your help! Just one more question, I thought you said that the peroxide effect only occurs within the first one hour after combining water and honey together. So why would we want to let it sit on the counter for one hour before applying? Or did I understand that wrong? Oh and I only need to let it sit if applying to wet hair?

You are most welcome.

With the 4 to 1 dilution, a honey will produce its maximum peroxide value in 1 hour.

The reason I suggest letting it sit for 1 hour in advance of application, on dry hair, is that people were having problems with the plastic and the old method (using it right away on wet hair)) - the plastic slipped, hair was drying - which means that the honey would stop producing peroxide.

A bathing cap, with the treatment used right away on wet hair - a brilliant innovation by kokuryu IMO, as per her results, prevents that.

But by letting the treatment sit you are applying it at full strength. You are still getting the hair wet - but keeping it wet is less critical - the maximum amount of peroxide has already been produced.

The dry hair method is to help with drips - you should get less drips on dry hair.

The treatment should be at full strength after 1 hour for quite a while, so letting it sit in advance is not a problem, IMO.

Ok thank you for clearing that up. I will try it again tomorrow.

Ok thank you for clearing that up. I will try it again tomorrow.

dontcallmejessi

You are very welcome.

Good luck!

And please update how things go.

dontcallmejessi

More of an explanation on honeys

There are at least 3 types of clover that can be in a clover honey for example - that depends on the brand - and which plants the bees were exposed to - the beekeepers set the hives down in different fields as the plants bloom.

mellie used a clover honey for Mellie's Mix - and got no lightening.

The same recipe and method with an alfalfa honey - worked beautifully.

The Successful Honeys List has brands of clover honey that have been reported to produce good results.

If you still get no results with the one you have after making recipe and method changes - it may just not produce enough peroxide.

I am doing a survey of honey lightening, on the reported results in the Pictures Post and baq henna.

For her older results, mellie had used baq henna once or twice.

"mellie - from an older Honey thread - on henndigoed hair - the 4 to 1 dilution - no peroxide boosters and no conditioner "
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=57442&postcount=224


bizarrogirl used baq henna

"bizarrogirl - on henndigoed hair (baq henna) and then on multiple henna layers with the 4 to 1 dilution - with ground cinnamon"
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=109432&postcount=586


and so did soleluna.

"soleluna - on hennaed hair (baq Egyptian henna) - the correct 4 to 1 dilution - after 1 treatment - with distilled water and only 1 tsp ground cinnamon - no conditioner"
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=164308&postcount=1375


I made notes on that and will continue to as I am notified, in the Pictures Post and other posts with Pictures Post results.

So, for those in doubt - honey lightening can, and has been reported, to lighten baq henna.

More baq henna survey results.

"GlennaGirl - on henndigoed hair ("Catherine's (tapdancinglizard) henna. The indigo was from her, too") - the 4 to 1 dilution with ground cinnamon
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=111943&postcount=653

GlennaGirl - picture details
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=111987&postcount=656

GlennaGirl - recipe details
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=111762&postcount=643

GlennaGirl - on her colour change with the 4 to 1 dilution
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=112224&postcount=676

GlennaGirl - latest signature picture - henna following - the 4 to 1 dilution - 2 more treatments - 1 with ground cinnamon, 1 with ground cardamom - 1 with no conditioner
"I'm really glad now that I did all the honey-ings. That worked well for lightening. I can relax now and just re-henna as roots come in...whew. ."
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=133292&postcount=6

How effecting is honey for dry/damaged hair???

How effecting is honey for dry/damaged hair???

Jasmine19

Honey lightening has not been reported to further damage already damaged hair.

It has been reported to be very conditioning.

If there is honey residue, the hair will feel dry until the residue is shampooed out.

How effecting is honey for dry/damaged hair???

I just wanted to second Ktani on the conditioning benefits of honey! My hair is recovering from severe damage (especially the ends) and a 50:50 honey/conditioner mix is by far, the best conditioner.

Remember though, that is not the mix for lightening. The 4:1 honey/liquid ratio is the one to use for this. This method is also quite conditioning, just much drippier :D

wintersun99

Thank you

Yes, the 2 treatments are very different.

Conditioner is not recommended for honey lightening but works beautifully with honey in a conditioning treatment.

To not lighten, microwave the honey separately, over 10 seconds, under 1 minute or use a very thick, rich conditioner, like Aussie Cleanse and Mend.

Microwaving destroys the enzyme in honey that produces peroxide.

Heavy conditioners can and have been reported to interfere with lightening but can still allow some lightening.

For how long should the honey and conditioner be kept in the hair???

What should be the proportion when using honey+conditioner?

Jasmine19

2 parts conditioner, 1 part honey or 50:50.
Leave it on the hair 20 minutes to 1 hour.

Thanks ktani :)

Jasmine 19

You are welcome.

Don't forget to microwave the honey if you want to prevent any chance of lightening.

Honey and H. pylori - Note: thyme honey is not recommended for honey lightening because it has high levels of Vitamin C.

Thyme honey effective in eliminating H. pylori in vitro
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=131103&postcount=1086 (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=131103&postcount=1086)

Method of treatment
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=131188&postcount=1087 (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=131188&postcount=1087)

Buy thyme honey
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=131301&postcount=1088 (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=131301&postcount=1088)

Short version of the recommendations in my signature.

Patch test any of the ingredients not previously used on scalp or skin.

1. Choose a honey - the Successful Honeys List
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=119128&postcount=856itamin

"If one cannot be found - try a dark coloured honey blend - raw or pasteurized - both have been reported to work equally well. Dark coloured blends were reported in research, to have higher peroxide levels than lighter coloured blends. A dark coloured, single source honey, does not necessarily have a high peroxide value - it depends on the plant source."

Jarrah honey - highly recommended - it has a very high peroxide value. More information and suppliers can be found here.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=157257&postcount=1266

Some honeys naturally contain higher levels of Vitamin C. Avoid using Anzer, buckwheat, linden flower, locust flower, mint and thyme honeys.

2. Use distilled water only. It contains no minerals. Minerals can deplete the recipe peroxide (so can Vitamin C, see #5). Conditioner is no longer recommended for honey lightening. Its ingredients and lack of water content can interfere with results. The same applies to coconut cream and milk (they contain minerals and can contain Vitamin C, as well as not enough water).

3. Use the 4 to 1 dilution (it is based on 4 x the amount of water to honey by weight) - e.g. 1/8 cup honey needs 3/4 cup distilled water, 50 g honey needs 200 ml distilled water etc.
http://www.traditionaloven.com/conversions_of_measures/honey_measurements.html

4. Do not apply heat to any of the recipe ingredients at any time, except herbal tea if used, that is cooled to room temperature before adding any other ingredients. Peroxide containing boosters are ground cardamom, ground cinnamon, extra virgin olive oil and coconut oil.

5. Do not add lemon juice, or any other ingredient that contains Vitamin C to a recipe, like tomato products, which are no longer recommended. Hydrogen peroxide oxidizes Vitamin C, and is depleted in doing so.

6. Mix the treatment at room temperature and let it sit for 1 hour, also at room temperature, to allow the honey to produce its maximum peroxide value.

7. Apply the treatment to dry hair if there is no aloe gel on it - aloe gel contains Vitamin C, or an unrinsed out rinse with Vitamin C, heavy residue, or a large amount of oil on the hair (a large amount of oil will act as a barrier to the water). If there is, wash the hair first then dry it to slightly damp. You will get less drips on dry hair. The treatment can be applied with a tint, blush, or pastry brush or a squirt bottle.

8. Pin up, then cover the hair with plastic, to keep it out of the way and contain drips. Leave the treatment on the hair for about 1 hour.

Links to Honey thread, honey lightening results.

On blonde hair

firbird - 3 sets of pictures, 2 sets linked - on previously dyed hair and virgin regrowth before using the 4 to 1 dilution and after with ground cinnamon and EVOO
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=75235&postcount=393

on a cassia treatment that had darkened her hair - 4 to 1 dilution - with ground cinnamon and EVOO, no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=94944&postcount=489

brok3nwings - on brassy hair from and old semi and acv red/gold tones - 4 to 1 dilution and ground cinnamon
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=98244&postcount=503

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=99995&postcount=516

brok3nwings - on the condition of her hair following honey lightening
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=98410&postcount=505

Minx - from an older Honey thread - virgin hair with the old dilution recipe
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=29214&postcount=72

morgwn - on virgin hair with cassia - after using firebird's new honey lightening recipe with cassia, ground cinnamon and EVOO - the 4 to 1 dilution - no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134211&postcount=1097

morgwn - on the condition of her hair following honey lightening with cassia
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134370&postcount=1101

kokuryu - on virgin, mid-blonde hair - using only tap water and honey, unmeasured - after 2 treatments
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=198570&postcount=1767

kokuryu - recipe details and the condition of her hair.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=198483&postcount=1765

kokuryu - on virgin, mid-blonde hair - using only tap water and honey, unmeasured - after 3 treatments
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=202532&postcount=1799

kokuryu - on the condition of her hair after 3 treatments
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=202876&postcount=1801



On medium shades of hair

Jan in ID - on mid-brown virgin hair - with the 4 to 1 dilution using distilled water - after 2 treatments - with ground cinnamon and booster oils - no conditioner and the condition of her hair following honey lightening
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=160564&postcount=1299

Jan in ID - on mid-brown virgin hair - with the corrected 4 to 1 dilution - after 3 more treatments - with ground cinnamon and only 1/2 tblsp EVOO, no conditioner and the conditioner of her hair, after 5 treaments
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=191116&postcount=1721

HalcyonDays - on dark mid-brown virgin hair - with the 4 to 1 dilution using tap water - after 1 treatment - left on the hair for 2 hours - just water and honey. The lighting is dark in the before picture, so I requested a replacement picture.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=179618&postcount=1633

HalcyonDays - on the condition of her hair following honey lightening and a replacement before picture
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=179696&postcount=1635



On dark hair

Maluhia and Viviane - from an older Honey thread with the old dilution recipes
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=18809&postcount=38

mellie - from an older Honey thread - on henndigoed hair (baq henna used once or twice) - the 4 to 1 dilution - no peroxide boosters and no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=57442&postcount=224

mellie - latest pictures on multiple layers of Rainbow Dark Brown Henna - the 4 to 1 dilution - no lemon, no peroxide boosters and no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=109246&postcount=572

nayver - on naturally black hair with faded hi-lights - the 4 to 1 dilution - no lemon, no peroxide boosters and no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=105685&postcount=534

bizarrogirl - on henndigoed hair (baq henna) and then on multiple henna layers with the 4 to 1 dilution - with ground cinnamon
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=109432&postcount=586

bizarrogirl - picture details
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bizarrogirl/sets/72157594199905645/detail/

GlennaGirl - on henndigoed hair ("Catherine's (tapdancinglizard) henna. The indigo was from her, too") - the 4 to 1 dilution with ground cinnamon
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=111943&postcount=653

GlennaGirl - picture details
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=111987&postcount=656

GlennaGirl - recipe details
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=111762&postcount=643

GlennaGirl - on her colour change with the 4 to 1 dilution
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=112224&postcount=676

GlennaGirl - latest signature picture - henna following - the 4 to 1 dilution - 2 more treatments - 1 with ground cinnamon, 1 with ground cardamom - 1 with no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=133292&postcount=6

DolphinPrincess - finally getting results - on henndigoed hair with the 4 to 1 dilution - with ground cardamom, no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=120769&postcount=916

kimki - on hennaed hair - with the 4 to 1 dilution after 2 treatments, 1 with ground cinnamon - no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=122653&postcount=958

soleluna - on hennaed hair (baq Egyptian henna) - the correct 4 to 1 dilution - after 1 treatment - with distilled water and only 1 tsp ground cinnamon - no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=164308&postcount=1375

soleluna - recipe details and the condition of her hair following honey lightening Note: the correct amount of honey used was 2 tablespoons - there was an error made in transcribing the recipe
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=164349&postcount=1377

Alley Cat - on chemically dyed, almost black, previously hennaed hair - 4 to 1 dilution - after 9 treatments - 8 with no conditioner - 3 with ground cinnamon - the last 5 with just water and honey, the 3 most recent with distilled water and the correct 4 to 1 dilution
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=167875&postcount=1492

Aley Cat - on the condition of her hair following honey lightening
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=168110&postcount=1495

Alley Cat - more on the condition of her hair following her 9th honey lightening treatment - with Jarrah honey, which has a very high peroxide value
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=176704&postcount=1596

LadyPolaris - on hennaed hair - after 2 treatments, 1 with the old 4 to1 dilution, ground cinnamon and no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=119360&postcount=867

LadyPolaris - on hennaed hair - after 3 treatments - the correct 4 to 1 dilution, with distilled water, ground cinnamon and EVOO - no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=176427&postcount=1583

LadyPolaris - on the condition of her hair following honey lightening
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=176471&postcount=1586

LadyPolaris - on hennaed hair - after 4 treatments - the correct 4 to 1 dilution by weight, with distilled water, ground cinnamon and EVOO - no conditioner and the condition of her hair following 4 honey lightening treatments
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=180750&postcount=1651

wintersun99 - on henndigoed hair - the 4 to 1 dilution, with distilled water and cinnamon - no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=176850&postcount=1602

wintersun99 - on the condition of her hair following honey lightening
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=177909&postcount=1610

Shampoo has been reported to be more effective in removing honey residue than vinegar rinses.

This may be why. I cannot acces the rest of the article but the information necessary is in the description - the polysaccharides - they can build-up themselves. Polysaccharides coat hair. I had build-up from German chamomile, which contains pollysaccharides and left a coating on my hair over time, leaving it dry. I was using a very strong chamomile tea, 8-10 tea bags, at the time, each time after I washed my hair.

Food Chemistry : Antioxidant activity of vinegar melanoidins ... (http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0308814606004924)
Vinegar made from grain is rich in polysaccharides, phenolic compounds and protein, which undergo profound molecular changes during decoction and storing ...
linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0308814606004924 - Similar pages (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/search?hl=en&pwst=1&q=related:linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0308814606004924) - Note this (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/)

White vinegar is usually made from grain.

Apple cider vinegar contains pectin, which contains polysaccarides.

This may also explain why vinegar rinses unless they are very diluted, can make hair dry.

While using honey and water combination the hair does develop an auburn kind of a color and gets shine too???

While using honey and water combination the hair does develop an auburn kind of a color and gets shine too???

Jasmine19

In terms of honey lightening, honey and water can lighten through stages.

It depends on the starting colour of the hair, the honey, recipe, method and dilution.

Several darker shades, on people who honey lightened, went from brown and dark blonde to golden and lighter blonde, without red.

With any lightening, the hair can go through stages - typically dark brown, black - to brown - to red - to gold - to blonde.

See HalcyonDays, Jan in ID, and kokuryu results.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=216615&postcount=1846

Shampooing after honey+conditioner is okay? Or just cold water rinse is fine?

Shampooing after honey+conditioner is okay? Or just cold water rinse is fine?

Jasmine19

Rinsing is fine - you only need to shampoo if your hair feels dry afterward - a sign of honey residue.

Different honeys leave different levels of residue.

Some leave next to none.

Thanks Ktani :)

Roman and German chamomile share many similar constituents.
http://www.innvista.com/HEALTH/herbs/chamomil.htm

Roman chamomile contains resin, instead of polysaccharides.

"The flower-heads of Anthemis nobilis, Linné ....
Common Names: Roman Chamomile ....
Principal Constituents. .... stimulating oil .... resin .... tannin.
http://www.henriettesherbal.com/eclectic/felter/anthemis-nobi.html

I came across this the other day, which explains to my why chamomile tea is not that conditioning - not that much oil is found in the tea - only 7 mg of oil per litre.

“The aromatic and polyphenolic composition of Roman camomile tea.
Only traces of essential oil .... recovered in tea (7 mg/l).”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14693217?ordinalpos=4&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVDocSum (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14693217?ordinalpos=4&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVDocSum)

Thanks Ktani :)

Jasmine19

You are most welcome.

Here is where I started back in Oct. '07

http://s266.photobucket.com/albums/ii267/LHC_2008/th_008.jpg

Here is on 8/11/2008

http://s266.photobucket.com/albums/ii267/LHC_2008/th_001.jpg

Update Photos

Taken yesterday at the same time, interesting color differences, no? As you can see, the Indigo is holding on strongly (on the outer layer) of my hair (especially the sides, not so much in the back) but all of the hair on the underneith layers has lightened/faded nicely. That is a fresh henna layer, I applied 2 days ago. Prior to that it was even slightly more faded, but kinda dull in color. The first picture is my greatest annoyance as you can see, I'm having great difficulty removing the Indigo from the "outer layer on the sides" of my hair. However, the Indigo is not holding on as strongly in the "back" of my hair. Happily, the Indigo doesn't always appear that dark in the sun.

Mix is still:
3/4 cup distilled water
2 Tablespoon honey (Clover honey in the Bear Bottle)
1 Tablespoon cinnamon

Condition is still:
Shiney and soft. I've been using this mix about 1-2x a week.


http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii267/LHC_2008/002-1.jpg

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii267/LHC_2008/006-1.jpg

wintersun99

Thank you for the updated, picture, the recipe and information on the condition of your hair.

WOW, that is some difference compared to your old results - a very definite lightening underneath.

Interesting that the outer layer is holding into the indigo, while the underneath and back has faded so much.

It sounds to me as if the outer layer is drying faster than the underneath, and the treatment is not as effective in those areas.

I suggest 2 things.

1. Regardless of whether you let the treatment sit for 1 hour before applying it, apply extra treatment to the outer layer at the end of your application and the sides, where you have the problem.

2. Use a bathing cap to cover your hair after the application. It should help keep all the moisture in better for the hour the honey lightening treatment is on your hair. I do not think if you let the treatment sit for 1 hour in advance of application, that this is necessary, but it cannot hurt to try it.

ETA: Thank you for editing in the most current photos, showing your most recent results and the information on the condition of your hair. I can really see the difference in the lightening and the indigo letting go in the upper layers. Nice work!

I should add that the darker Indigo'd color is the color ALL of my hair USED to be, but unfortunately I lost the pics that showed where I was when I started this process. Just imagine if you will, that dark black on my entire head!

I also need to clarify that the Indigo (eventhough the picture seems to look this way) is NOT adhering to my full length (on the sides) but kinda right in the middle-ends (not roots-ears) this is also where I have short layers due to the bad bleaching incident. This is where the MOST damage occurred and that is why we're seeing fading everywhere but there... I will continue to work on it, but the more it grows past my chin the less concerned I am :)

I should add that the darker Indigo'd color is the color ALL of my hair USED to be, but unfortunately I lost the pics that showed where I was when I started this process. Just imagine if you will, that dark black on my entire head!

I also need to clarify that the Indigo (eventhough the picture seems to look this way) is NOT adhering to my full length (on the sides) but kinda right in the middle-ends (not roots-ears) this is also where I have short layers due to the bad bleaching incident. This is where the MOST damage occurred and that is why we're seeing fading everywhere but there... I will continue to work on it, but the more it grows past my chin the less concerned I am :)

wintersun99

Thank you for the clarification.

Is this honey the new one that you mentioned that you were going to buy?

And if so, where is the big bear bottle from, whose brand, please?

Just checking and I want to add it to the Successful Honeys List.

yes - I changed honey from last month to this month - but I will have to check the exact brand, I just remember the "clover" part of it. I'll edit this post with the name - tonight.

ETA: Ktani, I did NOT let the mix set 1 hr. before applying, but I have been leaving it on for 2+ hours. However, I am still aiming for a few shades lighter so I will be preparing and letting the mix sit for an hour before applying, going forward. Will take another picture in a month :)

wintersun99

I should have asked this first.

Have you been letting the treatment sit for an hour at room temperature, in advance of application?

I still think that the bathing cap might be a good idea for you anyway.

Using a bathing cap is kokuryu"s brilliant idea. It works better than plastic if a treatment is not left to sit in advance of application and it might just help you in either case.

Updated Pictures Post

Here are links to some pictures of Honey thread, honey lightening results.
Note: A number of these results were done before the 4 to 1 dilution was corrected, a treatment was recommended to be left to sit for 1 hour before being appplied, and distilled water used.


On blonde hair

firbird - 3 sets of pictures, 2 sets linked - on previously dyed hair and virgin regrowth before using the 4 to 1 dilution and after with ground cinnamon and EVOO
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=75235&postcount=393

on a cassia treatment that had darkened her hair - 4 to 1 dilution - with ground cinnamon and EVOO, no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=94944&postcount=489

brok3nwings - on brassy hair from and old semi and acv red/gold tone