Alley Cat

Thank you.

It is good to know that after so many treatments, the condition of of your hair is problem free.

That is consistent with other reports of results following multiple honey lightening treatments.

It is interesting IMO, why some things work better than others for people.

Shampoo can remove residue from the honey, while a shampoo bar may not.

Shampoo bars can leave their own residue.

Your welcome. :)

Yes it is interesting but I guess everyone has to use what works for them.

so how frequently do you recommend to do a lightening treatment ?
I am doing mine most times I wash my hair so generally twice a week or sometimes more. On odd occasions I haven't felt like doing it so I washed it without doing one. But I have also done it 2 days in a row. :)

Alley Cat

I have added your pictures to the Pictures Post.

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=133707&postcount=1095

Zenity

Thank you for your feedback.

What is your starting colour?

What exactly are you trying to do with the honey?

Chamomile tea has been reported to add a golden tone to hair.

Cinnamon - unboiled - has not been reported to add any colour of its own with honey lightening.


If you want to try to lighten your hair with honey and cinnamon - I suggest the following.

1. Use ground cinnamon.

2. Do not boil the ground cinnamon.

3. Do not apply any heat to the honey, ground cinnamon or oil.

4. If you do not want to add any colour - just use room temperature distilled water, no chamomile - then add honey - then ground cinnamon and oil.

You could also patch test and then try ground cardamom.

Do not apply any heat to ground cardamom either if you try it.

Your recipe proportion - 100 ml water to 25 ml honey - is fine.

Ktani


What I would like to do is actually give my hair some highlights or reflections avoiding any redness.
My base color is pretty dark not black but dark brown, I use to dye my roots with a very light perioxide stuff (wella colour touch, using 4% perioxide).
That said, I have to watch out about any type of product touching my hair if I want to avoid the red showing up.
Adding chamomille to my mix was to test colour.
My first 2 sessions with only honey and water highlighted my middles and ends giving a lighter color to some old ashy highlights remaining but I notice it gave my dark colour a tint of red that I did not like that much.
Any suggestion?
I can't post pics... The system does not allow me, neither to check any user's profile....:confused:. Says that I do not have permission...

I will try again later

BTW, thanks for your suggestions.:p

Ktani


What I would like to do is actually give my hair some highlights or reflections avoiding any redness.
My base color is pretty dark not black but dark brown, I use to dye my roots with a very light perioxide stuff (wella colour touch, using 4% perioxide).
That said, I have to watch out about any type of product touching my hair if I want to avoid the red showing up.
Adding chamomille to my mix was to test colour.
My first 2 sessions with only honey and water highlighted my middles and ends giving a lighter color to some old ashy highlights remaining but I notice it gave my dark colour a tint of red that I did not like that much.
Any suggestion?
I can't post pics... The system does not allow me, neither to check any user's profile....:confused:. Says that I do not have permission...

I will try again later

BTW, thanks for your suggestions.:p

Zenity

When you lighten most dark coloured hair, red is one of the stages it naturally goes through.

It goes like this, darkest hair to - brown - red - gold - blonde, with variations of course, depending on the starting colour.

You cannot avoid the red stage unless you use something very strong at one time, like bleach.

Pictures of build-up on hair as seen with an electron microscope.
http://www.pg.com/science/haircare/hair_twh_98.htm

ktani: I finally have my pic. post! whaa whoo! It was very dark before from me dying it I know silly me! So I color Oopsed it. then began again with the honey treatments they really have worked their wonders again. The pic. makes it look kinda fly away at the ends and darker then it is but no one is picture perfect. Though I have seen some here that are to die for!
My goal would be to match my avator. :cheese:
Just though you would like to see!

ktani: I finally have my pic. post! whaa whoo! It was very dark before from me dying it I know silly me! So I color Oopsed it. then began again with the honey treatments they really have worked their wonders again. The pic. makes it look kinda fly away at the ends and darker then it is but no one is picture perfect. Though I have seen some here that are to die for!
My goal would be to match my avator. <hollie>
Just though you would like to see!

naturechild

Thank you posting your picture. Your hair looks great!

Details please, with regards to the honey lightening recipe and method you used.

Also, please tell me how many treatments you did, and the condition of your hair, after all of those honey lightening treatments.

Pictures of build-up on hair as seen with an electron microscope.
http://www.pg.com/science/haircare/hair_twh_98.htm

hmmm the one with the lady who applied hairspray and only washed once a week looks a little more jagged than what i saw with the microscope.. but it looks sort of similar..

ok so i washed my hair today and then looked under the microscope.. (when did i become such a geek?) anyway the hair doesnt seem to look jagged anymore.. i guess the build up is gone.. i did have a mushy feeling when washing but it wasnt as bad.. so im going to go ahead and do another honey treatment..

this time with distilled water.. a guy at the stop and shop went and got it for me from the back..

i will report back

hmmm the one with the lady who applied hairspray and only washed once a week looks a little more jagged than what i saw with the microscope.. but it looks sort of similar..

ok so i washed my hair today and then looked under the microscope.. (when did i become such a geek?) anyway the hair doesnt seem to look jagged anymore.. i guess the build up is gone.. i did have a mushy feeling when washing but it wasnt as bad.. so im going to go ahead and do another honey treatment..

this time with distilled water.. a guy at the stop and shop went and got it for me from the back..

i will report back

squiggy

Sounds good.

I am so glad that your hair is improving just by shampooing it.

That is what has been reported to happen when there is honey residue.

Geekdom, if that is a word, is contageous, lol.

I look forward to your new results.

I try to do the treatment at least twice a month, at first once a week.
I used a strong brew of chamomile tea with fresh flowers.
I let that cool then put in about a 1/4 cup of cinnamon.
squeeze bear type honey (the cheapo kind) in the 1-4 ratio.
I had used fresh Mullen from the garden, the last few I haven't no particular reason though.
I applied it to dry hair it gets pretty messy but I am patient plus the drips taste good!

I wrapped it all up in plastic wrap, but a warm towel on top of that, to catch the drips then read or just took a break for an hour. I usually used a mild soap just my reg soap did fine getting it all out. and viola.

I have noticed slow permanent lightening, mostly I love the condition. It really took a lot with the color oops and I feel it helped it come back from that. I have real light whips around my face and I love them!
I wouldn't say honey is the revolutionary color enhancer of the future. It is more for the people who love their hair and are concerned enough to take it a healthy slow route. It may take months but it sure works for me.

oh I forgot to add I dont use all of the chamomile tea or cinn. I use just enough to do the 4-1 and save the rest. WOW I made it sound like I put 1/4 a cup if cinn. on my hair goodness what would that DO?

I try to do the treatment at least twice a month, at first once a week.
I used a strong brew of chamomile tea with fresh flowers.
I let that cool then put in about a 1/4 cup of cinnamon.
squeeze bear type honey (the cheapo kind) in the 1-4 ratio.
I had used fresh Mullen from the garden, the last few I haven't no particular reason though.
I applied it to dry hair it gets pretty messy but I am patient plus the drips taste good!

I wrapped it all up in plastic wrap, but a warm towel on top of that, to catch the drips then read or just took a break for an hour. I usually used a mild soap just my reg soap did fine getting it all out. and viola.

I have noticed slow permanent lightening, mostly I love the condition. It really took a lot with the color oops and I feel it helped it come back from that. I have real light whips around my face and I love them!
I wouldn't say honey is the revolutionary color enhancer of the future. It is more for the people who love their hair and are concerned enough to take it a healthy slow route. It may take months but it sure works for me.

naturechild

Thank you for your recipe and method details.

I am glad that the honey lightening has helped your hair recover from the condition it was in after the color oops, and that the condition of your hair now, post honey lightening, is so good.

Chamomile can add a colour of its own to the hair.

I suggest, for future honey lightening treatments, that you try using straight room temperature distilled water, ground cinnamon and if you have not already used it, the corrected 4 to 1 dilution, of 1 1/2 cups water to 1/4 cup honey.

I think that you will find the results even better.

oh I forgot to add I dont use all of the chamomile tea or cinn. I use just enough to do the 4-1 and save the rest. WOW I made it sound like I put 1/4 a cup if cinn. on my hair goodness what would that DO?

naturechild

Thank you for the clarification - I did wonder about the ground cinnamon but different people have different tolerances for ingredients.

With the 4 parts water to 1 part honey dilution - corrected version - I think that you will find that you can use less cinnamon than you have previously used and still get good results.

Okay here are my pictures,

I only have dark light in my pics from my last session with cinnamon, that's why I am adding lighter light and darker light pics from every session so you can have a better idea of what I am getting here.

After first session with honey, distilled water and evoo:

Dark light:

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa85/ZenityNadir/colormiel1oscuro.jpg

Lighter light:

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa85/ZenityNadir/colormiel1-001.jpg

Second session using the same recipe:

Dark light:

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa85/ZenityNadir/colormiel2-oscuro.jpg

Lighter light (i had some jojoba oil in my hair, but I think it did not affect how the color looked)

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa85/ZenityNadir/colormiel2-002.jpg

Last session using cinnamon & chamomile instead plain distilled water:

Sorry I only have dark light today was cloudy here:

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa85/ZenityNadir/colorcanela03.jpg

I am not posting previous pics, because the colour of my hair was exactly or pretty much the same as the one after my first session and all of the pics I have you cannot really see in detail the hair itself. Sorry about that ;-(

What do you think???

Okay here are my pictures,

I only have dark light in my pics from my last session with cinnamon, that's why I am adding lighter light and darker light pics from every session so you can have a better idea of what I am getting here.

After first session with honey, distilled water and evoo:

Dark light:

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa85/ZenityNadir/colormiel1oscuro.jpg

Lighter light:

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa85/ZenityNadir/colormiel1-001.jpg

Second session using the same recipe:

Dark light:

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa85/ZenityNadir/colormiel2-oscuro.jpg

Lighter light (i had some jojoba oil in my hair, but I think it did not affect how the color looked)

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa85/ZenityNadir/colormiel2-002.jpg

Last session using cinnamon & chamomile instead plain distilled water:

Sorry I only have dark light today was cloudy here:

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa85/ZenityNadir/colorcanela03.jpg

I am not posting previous pics, because the colour of my hair was exactly or pretty much the same as the one after my first session and all of the pics I have you cannot really see in detail the hair itself. Sorry about that ;-(

What do you think???

Zenity

Thank you for the pictures and recipes.

I know that others have used darker and lighter light but IMO only the lighter light is necessary and helpful to properly see the colour of the hair.

Also please clarify if the results here are fom you now no longer boiling cinnamon.

By boiling cinnamon - any results IMO would be from the distilled water, honey and evoo only.

And did you use the 4 to 1 corrected dilution in ml or for example 1 1/2 cups of water to 1/4 cup honey?

It looks as if your hair is progressively lightening - please try to take the lighter light pictures in the same light.

Zenity

Thank you for the pictures and recipes.

I know that others have used darker and lighter light but IMO only the lighter light is necessary and helpful to properly see the colour of the hair.

Also please clarify if the results here are fom you now no longer boiling cinnamon.

By boiling cinnamon - any results IMO would be from the distilled water, honey and evoo only.

And did you use the 4 to 1 corrected dilution in ml or for example 1 1/2 cups of water to 1/4 cup honey?

It looks as if your hair is progressively lightening - please try to take the lighter light pictures in the same light.

Ktani,

In my first 2 sessions i used 25ml of honey per 100ml of distilled water and added a tblsp of evoo.
After my first session I did not notice any change in color, after the second slightly in the existing highlights of my hair and starting to show a bit of redish.

In my last session the only change i made to the previous recipe was, as posted before, boiling the distilled water to use in the recipe with a cinnamon stick and chamomille.
This definetelly changed the color of my hair, making it look more uniform and darker than it was after the 2nd session of honey.

I have been taking pictures at the same time of the day at the same place of the house, but, sunlight is tricky. In my lastest pics, no matter how hard I tried, it was impossible to make them lighter than they are.

A quick question maybe answered before:

How often can you do the honey lightening? Is there any limit or time to respect between sessions?

Thanks!

Ktani,

In my first 2 sessions i used 25ml of honey per 100ml of distilled water and added a tblsp of evoo.
After my first session I did not notice any change in color, after the second slightly in the existing highlights of my hair and starting to show a bit of redish.

In my last session the only change i made to the previous recipe was, as posted before, boiling the distilled water to use in the recipe with a cinnamon stick and chamomille.
This definetelly changed the color of my hair, making it look more uniform and darker than it was after the 2nd session of honey.

I have been taking pictures at the same time of the day at the same place of the house, but, sunlight is tricky. In my lastest pics, no matter how hard I tried, it was impossible to make them lighter than they are.

Zenity

I understand the difficulty with lighting - just do the best you can.

I appreciate your efforts.

I suggest just using 200 ml room temperature distilled water, add 50 ml of honey, then 1 tablespoon of ground cinnamon, after you have patch tested + 1 tablspoon evoo.

And no heat applied to the recipe at any point or its ingredients.

I also suggest trying a different honey - See the Successful Honeys List, #1, in the recommendations post, in my signature.

It may be that the honey you are using could be replaced by a better one.

Ktani, I think you have not seen this before:

A quick question maybe answered before:

How often can you do the honey lightening? Is there any limit or time to respect between sessions?

Thanks!

Ktani, I think you have not seen this before:

Zenity

Sorry, I did miss that.

You can honey lighten IMO, as often as you wish - the limit is entirely up to you.

Honey lightening has not been reported to cause hair damage.

Ktani,

Thanks a lot for your fast response.
I will follow your suggestion for my next session and see how it goes adding cinnamon to my hair.
BTW, as chamomile is known to add golden tones to the hair, does cinammon add any special range of color? or just bleaches the hair by the perioxide produced?

Thanks again for your time, dedication and patience with us!

Zenity

My pleasure.

I did address this previously, but unboiled ground cinnamon has not been reported to add any colour to the hair in honey lightening, in spite of net articles to the contrary.

Hmmm...
Makes me wonder...
Have you ever hear about Ardell Unred?
I have some and I would like to test how it could work with this mix to avoid-minimize the red phase....

Zenity

Ardell Unred is a colour drabber or colour additive. It designed to be used with hair colour.

A hairstylist on drabbers

"The colors .... in a shade book .... concentrates or additives and are unstable when used by themselves or used excessively in a color formula. .... isn't always "what you see is what you get" with drabbers. They aren't meant to stand alone ...."
http://www.behindthechair.com/forum/displaythread.aspx?DID=9176

I do not recommend adding Ardell Unred, to the honey lighening recipes.

While grocery shopping tonight, I came across McCormick ground cardamom, which is the brand I recommend for honey lightening recipes.

It has been reported to work well and wash out of the hair easier than cinnamon.

Patch test before tryng it.

Here in Canada, $5.00 and change - not bad IMO, for 42 grams.

wasnt able to do a honey treatment today.. maybe tomorrow

squiggy

No worries.

You are on your own timetable.

I look forward to reading your results whenever you are ready.

And please update as you go, on the the condition of your hair.

Alley Cat

I have added your pictures to the Pictures Post.

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=133707&postcount=1095


Cool. Thanks for that. :flower:

Cool. Thanks for that. :flower:

Alley Cat

You are most welcome.

Zenity

Thanks to your question on cinnamon and colour, I realized that the recommendations post needed an update.

I added a line of text at the end of #3.

The question has come up before, several times, but the thread is very long now, making it difficult to find things for some people.

The recommendations post was written with that in mind. Everything is there in one place. I update it constantly, as needed.

"3. The honey lightening boosters - ingredients that add extra peroxide to the recipes are; ground cardamom, ground cinnamon, coconut oil, extra virgin olive oil.
Spices can be irritating - less is more with the 4 to 1 dilution - start with 1 tablespoon after patch testing - suggested maximum - 2 tablespoons.
Information on ground cardamom can be found here.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=164193&postcount=1373
Oils can be difficult to wash out of the hair - suggested amount - 1 tablespoon.
None of the peroxide containing ingredients in the honey lightening recipes, including the honey and ground cinnamon, has been reported to add colour to the hair."

Having a little language problems here.. Even though reading an awful lot of the pages in this thread, I don't really understand "ground cinnamon". I know cinnamon, but I don't understand the "ground" thing (well, I look up the word in the dictionary, but I still don't get what ground cinnamon is, stupid me). I'm not sure is it meant the powder used in cooking? Ground in opposite to what?

Exodus

No problem.

Ground cinnamon is what powdered cinnamon is commonly called.

They are the same thing.

Cinnamon comes in 2 forms - sticks - and powdered, the sticks ground up.

And no question is stupid, IMO.

Thanks.
Damn English speaking folks to make things difficult (no offence).
*adding cinnamon to shopping list*

Exodus

None taken, lol.

When you buy it - refer to the recommendations link in my signature below to help you use it.

If you have any questions just post or pm me.

I always reply.

Hi ktani and all o y'all :)

I've been growing out my henna since March of this year. I was prepared to grow and trim for a year to get rid of it but after only TWO concious henna lightening I see absolutely no need to cut!!

I used the honey, coconut milk, evoo combo (with a lil' lemon juice)and was pleased BUT when I repeated the same treatment with CINNAMON sans lemon juice most of my henna colour disappeared!! I'm so excited. I plan to do this a few more times and i'm confident that i'm removing the henna while maintaining and even improving the health of my hair. I won't post a colour comparison until the end of the summer, when I surely won;t be the only one to notice the difference.

Hi ktani and all o y'all :)

I've been growing out my henna since March of this year. I was prepared to grow and trim for a year to get rid of it but after only TWO concious henna lightening I see absolutely no need to cut!!

I used the honey, coconut milk, evoo combo (with a lil' lemon juice)and was pleased BUT when I repeated the same treatment with CINNAMON sans lemon juice most of my henna colour disappeared!! I'm so excited. I plan to do this a few more times and i'm confident that i'm removing the henna while maintaining and even improving the health of my hair. I won't post a colour comparison until the end of the summer, when I surely won;t be the only one to notice the difference.

Strongnlong

Thank you for posting your recipes and results.

I am happy to read that you are happy with the results.

How is the condition of your hair after the new recipe?

I recommend trying a slightly different version next time.

Try distilled water, 4 parts water to 1 part honey.

E.g. 30 ml honey with 120 ml distilled water, coconut oil, evoo and cinnamon.

Strongnlong

Thank you for posting your recipes and results.

I am happy to read that you are happy with the results.

How is the condition of your hair after the new recipe?

I recommend trying a slightly different version next time.

Try distilled water, 4 parts water to 1 part honey.

E.g. 30 ml honey with 120 ml distilled water, coconut oil, evoo and cinnamon.

I will try this recipe and let you know how it works out for me.

After the new recipe my hair remained soft, lush and alot less frizzy for several days.

I will try this recipe and let you know how it works out for me.

After the new recipe my hair remained soft, lush and alot less frizzy for several days.

Strongnlong

I am glad to hear that you the condition of your hair is so good.

You do not have to use 30 ml of honey - you can size the recipe - that is just an example of what proportions to use.

The correct 4 to 1 dilution is done by weight.

Honey is heavier than water.

1 gram = 1 ml.

You can weigh out the measurements or convert.

Another example - 1/4 cup of honey would need 340 g or ml of distilled water - or 16 tablespoons or 1 1/2 cups of distilled water.

Thinking about the best way to do roots only with the 4 to 1 dilution.

While pming today, I realized that the best way to do this IMO, is also the simplest and least work intensive.

Mix the honey lightening recipe - distilled water and honey and any peroxide boosters at room temperature only - no heat having been applied at any point, to any of the ingredients.

Then let it sit for 1 hour - also at room temperature - to allow the honey to produce its maximum peroxide value.

Apply the mix after the hour to dry hair - at the roots only sections that you want lightened, with a tint, brush, basting or pastry brush.

This method should also work on any specific section of hair that you want lightened.

Pin up the dry hair remaining - in this case - the length - and cover with plastic, to keep the hair out of the way and avoid drips going everywhere.

Let the honey lightening treatment stay on the hair for about 1 hour - I think that it is all the time that should be needed.

hi -

two quick questions, in reference to the above post... why apply to dry hair and distilled water should be room temp.?

wintersun99

The recipe applied to wet hair has been reported to "travel" to unwanted areas when the hair has been wet.

The recipe is liquid enough to just wet sections.

The idea is that only the specific area be lightened.

Honey and the other honey lightening ingredients are best stored at room temperature.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=166458&postcount=1452

And in the reseach I read on testing a honey for its peroxide value, the distilled water added to the honey as well as the mix - was kept at room temperature, to allow the honey to produce its maximum peroxide value.

It has to do with the stability of the ingredients.

gotcha, thanks! guess I'll put my distilled water in the cupboard... rats! now I have to wait for it to warm up before applying a new application (off to put it in the shade on the deck) :)

wintersun99

I added these 2 links and text to the honey lightening storage ingredients post, which is in #8, of the recommendations post, linked in my signature below.

Water
Store .... water .... in a cool, dark place.
Replace water every six months."
http://www.ci.annapolis.md.us/info.asp?page=2839 (http://www.ci.annapolis.md.us/info.asp?page=2839)

Opened water
"To minimize exposure to bacteria, open a container just before use and then refrigerate it .... If no refrigeration .... available, keep the container up high, away from children and pets.
Direct heat and light .... slowly damage plastic containers resulting in eventual leakage .... they should be stored in a dark, cool and dry place.
Water can also be stored in a freezer."
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/SS439 (http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/SS439)

My jarrah honey from beehappy has arrived today. :cheese:
It was packaged well and arrived safely. Now to just try it. :D
I plan to do a treatment later this afternoon :)

Alley Cat

I am as excited as you are about it, lol.

Great news!

Please give details following your treatment - the condition of your hair and anything else that you care to share.

Yours will be the first Jarrah honey report.

Alley Cat

I am as excited as you are about it, lol.

Great news!

Please give details following your treatment - the condition of your hair and anything else that you care to share.

Yours will be the first Jarrah honey report.

I will give you a report. Cool I get to be the first. :cheese:

This is a general shout out to everyone who has done honey lightening.

While there have been successful honey lightening reports, using both pasteurized and raw honey, there has been at least one report that a raw honey did not leave residue, while a pasteurized honey did.

I have also read that there may be a difference in how the two are filtered.

So - please let me know if any of you noticed a difference between the 2 kinds - raw or pasteurized, in terms of residue.

:lol: I guess some people dont get it;). Maybe they think it'll make it smell good or darken up or something.

Why would we want to darken up hair that we're trying to lighten? That doesn't even make sense. I was heating water, not boiling, to mix with the honey, thinking it would release more peroxide since often heat tends to be a catalyst, but not in this case. The cinnamon was just mixed in after that to boost the honey. I had not read the honey article, just skimmed through the thread.

So anyway, I don't appreciate the "some people don't get it" and wink. Comes across wrong. Some people are cautious about the tone of their posts.

LuXious

Her remark was really in response to my comment on boiling cinnamom and knowing her previous posts, was not with you in mind or meant to be harsh, IMO.

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=165964&postcount=1438

My reaction in part was the same as yours.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=165974&postcount=1439

There were some posts on darkening hair as well, that were confusing.

And I was having trouble understanding the origins of the boilng cinnamon references after they kept coming up.

While I cannot speak for Aisha25, I honestly believe that the intent was not to be sarcastic or insensitive.

I take full responsibilty for the issue being discussed in a way that led to this and I am very sorry that this was the result.

LuXious

Her remark was really in response to my comment on boiling cinnamom and knowing her previous posts, was not with you in mind or meant to be harsh, IMO.

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=165964&postcount=1438

My reaction in part was the same as yours.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=165974&postcount=1439

There were some posts on darkening hair as well, that were confusing.

And I was having trouble understanding the origins of the boilng cinnamon references after they kept coming up.

While I cannot speak for Aisha25, I honestly believe that the intent was not to be sarcastic or insensitive.

I take full responsibilty for the issue being discussed in a way that led to this and I am very sorry that this was the result.
Yes Ktani is right I didnt mean anything to you or anyone personally. Me and Ktani were just conversationg and I was just being silly with her to make her in better mood. That was my only intent in my post. Sorry to anyone who misread my posts.

Aisha25

At the time, I had interpreted what you said as a means of lightening my mood.

I was getting frustrated with myself, thinking I had not been clear enough, so that people would not have to have problems with the recipes.

Aisha25

At the time, I had interpreted what you said as a means of lightening my mood.

I was getting frustrated with myself, thinking I had not been clear enough, so that people would not have to have problems with the recipes.
Yeah I know that was my intent too Ktani. I never want to see you in bad mood as you are my favorite honey geek:laugh: and always wish to see you happy:flowers:!

Aisha25

Thank you.

I think that the real problem here was that although I did understand you, what you wrote was open to interpretation.

I have edited countless times for that very reason.

I have done exactly the same thing.

I know exactly what I mean to say at the time but others could interpret what I say differently.

Sometimes I do not get the chance to do that - I am quoted.

It is a risk we all take with written only communication.

No one can see our faces, or hear the inflection in our voices, to interpret what we are saying differently, than what is written.

Aisha25

Thank you.

I think that the real problem here was that although I did understand you, what you wrote was open to interpretation.

I have edited countless times for that very reason.

I have done exactly the same thing.

I know exactly what I mean to say at the time but others could interpret what I say differently.

Sometimes I do not get the chance to do that - I am quoted.

It is a risk we all take with written only communication.

No one can see our faces or hear the inflection in our voices to interpret what we are saying differently than what is written.
Yes that is true that is the only problem with the interwebs no one can see our expressions or hear our tone. Thanks for handling this in a fast and complete manner Ktani.

Aisha25

I hope that I have.

I believe that this was all a misunderstanding.

I appreciate you responding about your intent, as well.

Only LuXious can say if both you and I did help to clear this up.

I have a question (imagine that! :silly:). Since I've searched for an answer and either have missed the one post that contains it, or the question hasn't been asked yet, I'm gonna ask it!

Is there a quantifiable difference in the lightening achieved with pasteurized honey vs raw, unpasteurized honey? I'm planning on a lightening treatment this evening and happen to have some of each on hand and I'd like to get the most bang for my buck!

Islandgrrl[/I];173981]I have a question (imagine that! :silly:). Since I've searched for an answer and either have missed the one post that contains it, or the question hasn't been asked yet, I'm gonna ask it!

Is there a quantifiable difference in the lightening achieved with pasteurized honey vs raw, unpasteurized honey? I'm planning on a lightening treatment this evening and happen to have some of each on hand and I'd like to get the most bang for my buck!

Islandgrrl

Not that has been reported - no.

What can make the difference in the amount of lightening is the kind honey (plant source), the recipe and the method.

If you look at the link in my signature below - there is a Successful Honeys List in #1 of the recommendations.

It goes by brand names mostly, because different brands, of say clover honey, have been reported to work differently.

Again that is the plant source - different brands no doubt contain different clover honeys.

#9 tells you some honeys to avoid.

Taking another look at the method for applying the new honey lightening recipes.

The recommended honey lightening recipes have completely changed - distilled water has replaced conditioner.

What has not changed is the method for applying a treatment.

It is time IMO, for the application method to keep pace with the recipe changes.

This is now what I recommend.

1. Mix the honey lightening recipe - everything at room temperature - no heat applied to any ingredient at any time (except for herbal tea if used - that has been prepared ahead of time and cooled to room temperature) - and let the recipe sit for 1 hour - also at room temperature - to let the honey produce its maximum peroxide value.

2. The hair should be freshly washed and slightly damp or dry. This should help make drips less of a problem. The recipes are liquid enough to fully saturate the hair.

3. Apply the recipe with a tint, blush, basting brush or squirt bottle, pin the hair up, cover the hair with plastic and keep the treatment on the hair for about 1 hour.

The reported problems with letting the honey produce its maximum peroxide value while on the hair; the plastic slips and the hair starts to dry in places, drips are uncomfortable (the treatment will drip more on already wet hair).

The new method ensures that the honey’s peroxide value is already at maximum strength and the hair does not have to kept wet, in order for that to develop.

The plastic now just ensures that the hair is out of the way and that most of the drips are contained.

The basics of this post
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=174258&postcount=1559

have been added to the recommendations post, linked in my signature, #13.

Taking another look at the method for applying the new honey lightening recipes.

The recommended honey lightening recipes have completely changed - distilled water has replaced conditioner.

What has not changed is the method for applying a treatment.

It is time IMO, for the application method to keep pace with the recipe changes.

This is now what I recommend.

1. Mix the honey lightening recipe - everything at room temperature - no heat applied to any ingredient at any time (except for herbal tea if used - that has been prepared ahead of time and cooled to room temperature) - and let the recipe sit for 1 hour - also at room temperature - to let the honey produce its maximum peroxide value.

2. The hair should be freshly washed and slightly damp or dry. This should help make drips less of a problem. The recipes are liquid enough to fully saturate the hair.

3. Apply the recipe with a tint, blush, basting brush or squirt bottle, pin the hair up, cover the hair with plastic and keep the treatment on the hair for about 1 hour.

The reported problems with letting the honey produce its maximum peroxide value while on the hair; the plastic slips and the hair starts to dry in places, drips are uncomfortable (the treatment will drip more on already wet hair).

The new method ensures that the honey’s peroxide value is already at maximum strength and the hair does not have to kept wet, in order for that to develop.

The plastic now just ensures that the hair is out of the way and that most of the drips are contained.
I don't do number 2. I don't wash my hair before hand just to save on time and water. I use this as my washing method and shampoo and condition after. I apply the mixture straight to dry hair. :shrug:

Ok update on my first jarrah honey treatment as promised. I used 40g of jarrah honey to 160g of distilled water letting it sit an hour before applied it to my hair and left it an hour.
My hair feels really nice as usual. Funny thing was when I shampooed and conditioned my hair at first it didn't feel as nice as normal but it dried really nice and feels lovely the day after my treatment.
I can see it has lightened some more my hair is a slightly different colour ; hard to explain really. :shrug: i don't think photo's would show a change but I can see a change.
I will continue with more treatments for now. By the way the jarrah is a dark colour almost the same as the Manuka colour was. :)

Ok update on my first jarrah honey treatment as promised. I used 40g of jarrah honey to 160g of distilled water letting it sit an hour before applied it to my hair and left it an hour.
My hair feels really nice as usual. Funny thing was when I shampooed and conditioned my hair at first it didn't feel as nice as normal but it dried really nice and feels lovely the day after my treatment.
I can see it has lightened some more my hair is a slightly different colour ; hard to explain really. :shrug: i don't think photo's would show a change but I can see a change.
I will continue with more treatments for now. By the way the jarrah is a dark colour almost the same as the Manuka colour was. :)

Alley Cat

Thank you for the 1st report on results with Jarrah honey.

#2 of that recommendation is general. It really depends on what is on the hair. If there is no problem - like you are experiencing - then it is not necessary to wash the hair first.

I am glad that the condition of your hair with the Jarrah honey is so good and that the lightening is visible to you right away.

Thank you for letting me know the colour of the Jarrah honey too - it can vary from what I have read.

For a honey that, for example is known to work well, that is a single type of honey, or is known to have a high peroxide value like Jarrah honey, the colour is not important, but it is nice to know.

It is when buying a blend of honeys that the dark coloured honeys become an issue.

Single source dark coloured honeys are not necessarily the best choices. It depends on the plant source.

Alley Cat

I am going to ammend the 2nd recommendation on washing the hair first before applying a honey lightening treatment.

If there is for example, aloe gel on the hair (aloe gel contains Vitamin C), a Vitamin C containing unrinsed out rinse, heavy conditioner or styling products on the hair, I think it is better to wash or rinse the hair first, then dry it.

Aloe vera gel contains more Vitamin C than raw lemon juice.

Aloe vera gel - about 350 mg per 8 oz or 240 ml (g) or 1 cup.
http://www.aloeveracanada.ca/about_av.html

Lemon juice, raw - 112 mg in 1 cup or 244 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20VG.html

"9. No ingredients that contain Vitamin C, (except ground cardamom, which has the highest peroxide value for a spice and a low Vitamin C level), should be used in the recipes. Hydrogen peroxide oxidizes Vitamin C and is depleted in doing so. Some honeys naturally contain higher levels of Vitamin C. Avoid using Anzer, buckwheat, linden flower, locust flower, mint and thyme honeys. Most honeys contain very low levels. Here is a list of ingredients that contain Vitamin C."
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=83009&postcount=429

If not - then it should be fine just to apply a honey lightening treatment on dry unwashed hair.

Ammemded. See the recommendations post in my signature below.

Thank you Alley Cat.

"13. Mix the honey lightening recipe, everything at room temperature, and let the recipe sit for 1 hour, also at room temperature, to let the honey produce its maximum peroxide value. The hair should be freshly washed or rinsed first, and slightly damp or dry, if there is aloe gel on the hair (aloe gel contains Vitamin C), a Vitamin C containing unrinsed out rinse, heavy conditioner or styling products on the hair. If not, a honey lightening treatment can be applied to dry, unwashed hair. This should help make drips less of a problem (the treatment will drip more on already wet hair).
The recipes are liquid enough to fully saturate the hair. Apply the treatment with a tint, blush, basting brush or squirt bottle, pin the hair up, cover the hair with plastic and keep the treatment on the hair for about 1 hour. The plastic ensures that the hair is out of the way and that most of the drips are contained."

thanks for the link ktani.. i havent done another honey treatment for various reasons which include me finding out i could rent dvds from the library and i became addicted to a certain show and borrowed like 15 dvds in the series (over the past couple of days) plus ive been really busy.. so busy that i havent washed my hair in days.. im sure eventually ill find the time.. but probably not until after i watch every episode of smallville

squiggy

You are most welcome.

It is the July 4th holiday week where you are - enjoy it!

Yes Ktani is right I didnt mean anything to you or anyone personally. Me and Ktani were just conversationg and I was just being silly with her to make her in better mood. That was my only intent in my post. Sorry to anyone who misread my posts.

This is me ----> :soapbox:

Sorry.:flower:

This is me ----> :soapbox:

Sorry.:flower:
LuXious

No worries.

Your feelings were valid - they were your feelings.

You could not have known at the time where Aisha25's response was coming from.

This is a lesson to us all IMO, on being careful of how we word and interpret things.

And the importance of open discussion if there is a problem.

What happened with you could easily have happed to anyone. It has happened to me, both ways.

Thanks for the updated recommendations ktani, and I love your new avatar! Applying to dry hair will make it so much easier than having to get in the shower twice :)

Thanks for the updated recommendations ktani, and I love your new avatar! Applying to dry hair will make it so much easier than having to get in the shower twice :)

firebird

You are most welcome.

Thank you.

I love the avatar too.

It was jessie58's idea - a great one, as it turned out.

I am not digital camera enabled yet, so I went picture hunting.

That one turned out to be free and not copyrighted.

And the colours are beautiful, IMO.

There is only one problem with it - it makes me hungry, lol.

As to the new recommendations - they should solve the drips problem to a large degree, lessening the desire of those who wanted to thicken a recipe, and help ensure the best results, with the honey peroxide value being at maximum, when a treatment is applied.

For you - the only thing that should still be added at the last minute IMO, and not before, is the cassia.

You can add a bit of distilled water to that, just prior to it adding to the recipe, then apply the treatment to your hair.

The 4 to 1 dilution is still a problem for some people.

It took me awhile to get it clear in my mind as well.

Here is a simplifed version. Honey is heavier than water. The 4 to 1 dilution is based on weight but it can be converted.

For the correct 4 parts distilled water to 1 part honey dilution - you can use ml or grams.

1 ml = 1 gram

For the recommended minimum amount of honey, 10 grams or ml, you would need 40 ml or grams of distilled water.

50 ml of honey would need 200 ml of distilled water etc.

or tablespoons - these are US conversions.

1/8th cup of honey = 2 tablespoons, so you would need 8 tablespoons of distilled water.

1/4 cup of honey = 4 tablespoons - you would need 16 tablespoons of distilled water.

See the calculator in this link and the conversion tables. The conversion tables are US measurements.
http://www.traditionaloven.com/conversions_of_measures/honey_measurements.html

I'm on my 3rd honey lightening treatment today - I have it in my hair right now in fact! I'm using a modified recipe in accordance to ktani's recent discoveries:


- 1 part honey
(This one is not the Bio21 orange blossom honey I used before. It's a darker honey, from a mixed source.)

- 4 parts distilled water at room temperature
(Before, I used filtered water to make chamomile tea, and let it cool until lukewarm or just above room temperature.)

- 2 tbsp. ground cinnamon
(Unchanged. I cannot seem to find ground cardamom around, only the seeds; I'll probably have to order it online.)

- 1 tbsp. EVOO
(I used coconut oil before.)


I let it sit for 1 hour and applied it to my dry hair, it was last washed yesterday morning (diluted shampoo, CO conditioner, rinsed out, then a drop of leave-in - mixed butters and oils, on the ends only). I don't think the peroxide will have a problem with any residue, let's see!

I plan on leaving it on my hair for at least 1 hour, maybe more, depending on the circumstances.

I'll report later on or tomorrow, when my hair is dry, with the total time of the treatment, the perceived results and a photo (that'll have to wait until daylight is out again).

BTW! My beloved shampoo bars from Ida at CV had probably been working against the honey lightening with all the castor oil they contain, so I switched to her soap bars instead. According to Ida, soap bars only have about 3% castor oil. And her Chamomile & Calendula turns out to be a great all-over bar - body and hair! My hair likes the switch. It seemed to behave better and less tangly with the most moisturizing shampoo bars, and soap bars are more superfatted, so it really loves the soaps. :)

I'm on my 3rd honey lightening treatment today - I have it in my hair right now in fact! I'm using a modified recipe in accordance to ktani's recent discoveries:


- 1 part honey
(This one is not the Bio21 orange blossom honey I used before. It's a darker honey, from a mixed source.)

- 4 parts distilled water at room temperature
(Before, I used filtered water to make chamomile tea, and let it cool until lukewarm or just above room temperature.)

- 2 tbsp. ground cinnamon
(Unchanged. I cannot seem to find ground cardamom around, only the seeds; I'll probably have to order it online.)

- 1 tbsp. EVOO
(I used coconut oil before.)


I let it sit for 1 hour and applied it to my dry hair, it was last washed yesterday morning (diluted shampoo, CO conditioner, rinsed out, then a drop of leave-in - mixed butters and oils, on the ends only). I don't think the peroxide will have a problem with any residue, let's see!

I plan on leaving it on my hair for at least 1 hour, maybe more, depending on the circumstances.

I'll report later on or tomorrow, when my hair is dry, with the total time of the treatment, the perceived results and a photo (that'll have to wait until daylight is out again).

BTW! My beloved shampoo bars from Ida at CV had probably been working against the honey lightening with all the castor oil they contain, so I switched to her soap bars instead. According to Ida, soap bars only have about 3% castor oil. And her Chamomile & Calendula turns out to be a great all-over bar - body and hair! My hair likes the switch. It seemed to behave better and less tangly with the most moisturizing shampoo bars, and soap bars are more superfatted, so it really loves the soaps. :)

LadyPolaris

Thank you for posting your recipe and details.

This all sounds good in terms of proportions and ingredients and the switch to the soap bars.

To save youself some money - you can buy cardamom seeds and grind them youself with a mortar and pestle.

It will be a lot less expensive than online ordering.

I look forward to your results.

ktani, you're most welcome! Thank you for the guidance!

I would buy the cardamom seeds, but I don't think I can grind them nearly as finely as storebought ground cardamom with the tools I have. The ground cardamom I found online is just about the same price as the seeds, so I'll probably order it, unless I find it soon in one of the health food stores I've been paying visits to. :) It will pay off, I'm sure! Cinnamon doesn't do much for me in the way of reactions (all I get is a rather nice minty tingle from it), but I'm taking all the extra peroxide I can get!

I'll probably wash this off in a bit. Nearly 2 hours of treatment, it's good enough, I think. I'm looking forward to the results of this round with distilled water and EVOO, and the new honey! Only cardamom missing now. :)

Hoping for good daylight tomorrow!

LadyPolaris

Good luck!

Results will depend on how much residue, and what kind of leave-ins there are on the hair, but for convenience, a distilled water with just honey treatment that has been left to sit for 1 hour at room temperature, in advance of application, can be applied to unwashed, dry hair more often.

The boosters have been reported to require more time and attention to wash out in some cases.

Treatments with boosters can be done when there is more time available.

With the 4 to 1 dilution, the results have been reported to be much faster per treatment than with previous dilutions and ingredients, so a lot of treatments should not be required, depending on the desired lightening goal.

Alley Cat has been doing the treatments more frequently and based on her results, has been making steady progress. Very dark, almost black, colour-treated hair is notoriously difficult to lighten.

She got results early on, after the first few treatments, and if you look at her length and ends in the 2nd picture, you can clearly see that her hair is lightening very nicely. Distilled water was not used in all of the treatments and the 4 to 1 dilution was not corrected until recently either, because I had not realized until fairly recently, that the dilution needs to be done by weight.

Letting a treatment sit for 1 hour, in advance of application, was an option before - it is now recommended as the preferred method for the treaments, because it allows the peroxide value of the honey to be at full strength, before a recipe is applied to the hair.

From the Pictures Post, #15, in the link in my signature below.

"Alley Cat - on chemically dyed almost black hair - the 4 to 1 dilution - after 9 treatments - 8 with no conditioner - 3 with ground cinnamon - the last 5 with just water and honey, the 3 most recent with distilled water"
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=167875&postcount=1492

I don't do number 2. I don't wash my hair before hand just to save on time and water. I use this as my washing method and shampoo and condition after. I apply the mixture straight to dry hair. :shrug:

Alley Cat on her honey lightening method from this post. http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=174652&postcount=1561

And this is what distilled water and honey can do after only 1 treatment, with a very small amount of a booster, without letting the recipe sit for 1 hour, in advance of application. This is also in #15, in the link in my signature, below.

I think the results with a treatment left to sit in advance of application could be even better.

Note: soleluna's hair was wet prior to applying the treatment because she rinsed off a lemon juice rinse that she had left in her hair.

"soleluna - on hennaed hair - the 4 to 1 dilution - after 1 treatment - with distilled water and only 1 tsp ground cinnamon - no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=164308&postcount=1375

soleluna - recipe details Note: the correct amount of honey used was 2 tablespoons - there was an error made in transcribing the recipe"
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php? (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=164349&postcount=1377)

1/8th cup of honey = 2 tablespoons, so you would need 8 tablespoons of distilled water.

1/4 cup of honey = 4 tablespoons - you would need 16 tablespoons of distilled water.

This is what I needed! Conversions have a tendency to give me a headache, which is why I "wing it" cooking too... :D

wintersun99

You are not the only one, lol.

When I first realized that the 4 to 1 dilution was incorrect as I had stated it, the conversions drove me mad!

But this link is amazing, IMO.

You can use the calculator or the conversion tables.
http://www.traditionaloven.com/conversions_of_measures/honey_measurements.html

The calculator I found to be difficult - I could not get it to work.

ETA: I just got the calculator to work.

Interesting, IMO.

To use the calculator, enter the measurement in the "Enter Amount" space, then highlight the measurements in each column below, and you automatically get the result. You do not have to click anything or hit enter, which I was doing, in error.
http://www.traditionaloven.com/conversions_of_measures/honey_measurements.html

1 cup honey Metric = 360 grams

1 cup honey US = 340 grams

So, depending on where you live and the measuring system you use - it can be fun or a challenge.

You can just do what Alley Cat does - use straight grams.

or straight ml - 1 gram = 1 ml

The differences are not huge. The conversion tables are US measurements.

1/8 cup honey Metric = 45 grams. You would need 180 grams or ml distilled water.

1/8 cup honey US = 42.5 grams. - You would need 170 grams or ml distilled water.

1/8 cup honey Metric = 2.12 tablespoons. You would need 8.48 tablespoons distilled water.

1/8 cup honey US = 2 tablespoons.----------You would need 8 tablespoons distilled water.

ktani, is there any problem in diluting the honey slightly more than 1:4 ratio? I don't use measuring spoons or cups to measure my treatments, I judge by eye (very scientific, I know!) - so I always leave a small amount of extra water to be sure that the honey has at least 4 parts of water to release peroxide in. Since the final mix is very watery anyway, I figured a little bit more water wouldn't make a difference. So, my final mix ends up being 1:4.5 or close. Is this bad for peroxide release, though? Should I make an effort to be exactly on the 1:4 mark?


It's Winter here on the Southern hemisphere, and the days are usually humid and overcast. Today was no exception, so I had to use flash in this (lousy) photo, eek! Anyway, here it is - the recipe for my 3rd treatment:

- 1 part dark honey from a mixed source
- 4 parts (or just a little over that) distilled water at room temperature
- 2 tbsp ground cinnamon (for some reason, this one was much harder to wash out than the previous recipes - unchanged amount though. I may try 1 very full tbsp next. Or cardamom, which I'm probably ordering online.)
- 1 tbsp EVOO (this was way too much on my hair - I plan on using 1/2 tbsp next.)

Edited to add: I let this mix sit for 1 hour releasing peroxide before applying it to my hair. It seems to be more effective this way than letting it release while on the hair - no risk of it not getting enough moisture.


And the crappy peekshure:


http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn110/LadyPolaris/7e21da0e.jpg

Okay, today we had a sliver of sunlight! (Not enough for a beautiful direct sunlight picture though!) I took the photo in the same conditions as the first one, for consistency.

Here's my first picture - one day after my 1st honey+cinnamon treatment. My 4 parts water were actually 2 parts conditioner, 2 parts warm chamomile tea. 2tbsp cinnamon, no other additives. Bio21 honey (supposedly orange blossom). Left on for 3 hours.

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn110/LadyPolaris/4da56c3f.jpg


And here's my second picture - one day after my 2nd honey+cinnamon treatment. I used all 4 parts cool chamomile tea this time, 2tbsp cinnamon like last time PLUS 1/2 tbsp coconut oil. Same Bio21 honey. Left on for 3 hours as well.

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn110/LadyPolaris/5c071ad1.jpg


I can definitely see the henna fading away into an orange fox fur color. The rest of my hair seems to be slowly becoming less of a medium-dark ashy brown and more of a medium warm brown. :joy:

Many thanks to ktani for her research!

LadyPolaris

By comparison, to your earlier results, with conditioner and a different 4 to 1 dilution, your hair is definitely less brown and more red - much more red.

It is definitely lightening, IMO.

No, I do not think a bit of extra distilled water should harm anything.

You may want to consider measuring though.

LadyPolaris

I just added your results to the Pictures Post, #15, in the link in my signature, below.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=133707&postcount=1095

I agree ktani, it was brown-burgundy and now it's more of an orange auburn. That is definitely some lifting of henna layers. Plus my virgin hair is a lighter ashy brown now (even though you can't really see it in the pictures), and the finer hairs were lightened a lot, while the coarser hairs, less so. My husband commented this morning on how it looks like I have crazy highlights - some sections lighter than the others (I'm guessing the hennaed parts are becoming lighter than the virgin parts) and some fine hairs a lot lighter than the others. (Which is to be expected, since fine hairs will lighten faster anyway.)

Absolutely no damage to the hair so far, it's soft and shiny. The only change in texture was perceived when washing the mixture off my hair - the few stubborn cinnamon grounds that remained felt like crunchy hair, and the extra oil I mistakenly added to my recipe wasn't too easy to get rid of. But, immediately after my hair was dry from all the thorough washing, COing and rinsing - silky hair, better than before.

Now, to keep at it!

LadyPolaris

Thank you for anticipating my next post - on the condition of your hair.

I am glad that it is so good. "better than before" - I love reading that, lol and you are not the first to say it.

Even with the lighting in your pictures - you hair is now out of the burgundy and brown stages - headed for the lighter tones and in only 3 treatments.

Nicely done!

And your hair looks gorgeous and so shiny.

I would not worry too much about a little exta distilled water - just do not overdo it.

Distilled water, based on the newest results, is the clear winner IMO - beating out other waters and conditioner - by far.

Based on the latest reported results, honey lightening can be very much less gradual than it ever used to be, even on hennaed hair.

This was reported with the 4 to 1 dilution from the beginning of its use, in some cases.

With distilled water - and the corrected 4 to 1 dilution and no conditioner at all in the mixes - more and more reports continue to come in with faster and better results on all kinds of hair colours, including virgin, colour-treated and hennaed hair.

The next step up IMO - will be more results reported, after letting a treatment sit for 1 hour, before applying a recipe to the hair.

Thank you so much ktani, you're too kind! :)

Yes, after the honey+cinnamon treatments my hair always turns out softer and shinier than it was before, even though while rinsing off the mixture it does not feel that way. (Stubborn cinnamon grounds are the culprits!) As soon as it dries, it feels pampered - thanks to our amazing main lightening agent which is also a humectant.

I'm so happy that even with the horrid lighting I've been getting in these parts you can still notice a shift from burgundy-brown to orange-auburn! I hope my next pictures will be clearer.

My dream lightening goal is a medium-light brown, and then I will do only the occasional henna gloss, and keep on doing the honey treatments, in hopes of keeping a fairly constant orange-red tone and maybe achieve some extra lightening if I can. I'm absolutely amazed at the beautiful tones henna achieves in light brown / dark blonde hair - if I could have a hair wish come true, it would be to have that lovely color.

I believe I'll let go permanently of the chamomile tea I used before in the mixes. Distilled water worked very well and there's no fear of any tiny color deposit - only color lift. Plus, it is more practical!

And I will definitely wait 1 hour from now on, for the peak peroxide release in my mixes. It seems to be the way to go, giving honey and additives the best possible situation to release peroxide to their hearts' content.

Thank you for all the guidance, ktani! :flowers:

Thank you so much ktani, you're too kind! :)

Yes, after the honey+cinnamon treatments my hair always turns out softer and shinier than it was before, even though while rinsing off the mixture it does not feel that way. (Stubborn cinnamon grounds are the culprits!) As soon as it dries, it feels pampered - thanks to our amazing main lightening agent which is also a humectant.

I'm so happy that even with the horrid lighting I've been getting in these parts you can still notice a shift from burgundy-brown to orange-auburn! I hope my next pictures will be clearer.

My dream lightening goal is a medium-light brown, and then I will do only the occasional henna gloss, and keep on doing the honey treatments, in hopes of keeping a fairly constant orange-red tone and maybe achieve some extra lightening if I can. I'm absolutely amazed at the beautiful tones henna achieves in light brown / dark blonde hair - if I could have a hair wish come true, it would be to have that lovely color.

I believe I'll let go permanently of the chamomile tea I used before in the mixes. Distilled water worked very well and there's no fear of any tiny color deposit - only color lift. Plus, it is more practical!

And I will definitely wait 1 hour from now on, for the peak peroxide release in my mixes. It seems to be the way to go, giving honey and additives the best possible situation to release peroxide to their hearts' content.

Thank you for all the guidance, ktani! :flowers:

LadyPolaris

You are most welcome.

Picture lighting can be tricky.

But yes, your colour change is very visible to me.

While I cannot predict how far you can take honey lightening, IMO, you are well on your way to lighter tones.

Considering the fact that you do not want the possibility of any added colour, giving up the chamomile is a good idea IMO, and will be less work for you, not having to prepare it and then let it cool down, before adding the other recipe ingredients.

I am very pleased to see and read your results with distilled water.

The reported results with it, exceed what I hoped for in terms of the kind of difference it is making.

I really do believe that letting a treatment sit for 1 hour at room temperature, before applying it to the hair will make a difference for others too, as I believe it did for you, with this treatment.

Thank you for such a detailed report.

It makes things much easier for others to know exactly what you did and did not use and do.

Good - I'm on the right track then! :)

You're welcome ktani, and thank you as well!

LadyPolaris

IMO, you are not just on the right track, you are on the honey lightening fast track, lol.

Alley Cat

Thank you for the 1st report on results with Jarrah honey.

#2 of that recommendation is general. It really depends on what is on the hair. If there is no problem - like you are experiencing - then it is not necessary to wash the hair first.

I am glad that the condition of your hair with the Jarrah honey is so good and that the lightening is visible to you right away.

Thank you for letting me know the colour of the Jarrah honey too - it can vary from what I have read.

For a honey that, for example is known to work well, that is a single type of honey, or is known to have a high peroxide value like Jarrah honey, the colour is not important, but it is nice to know.

It is when buying a blend of honeys that the dark coloured honeys become an issue.

Single source dark coloured honeys are not necessarily the best choices. It depends on the plant source.

Your welcome.. I know you would be eager to know how I went on with the condition and the lightening as well:) I was curious myself to see the colour of the jarrah.

Alley Cat

I am going to ammend the 2nd recommendation on washing the hair first before applying a honey lightening treatment.

If there is for example, aloe gel on the hair (aloe gel contains Vitamin C), a Vitamin C containing unrinsed out rinse, heavy conditioner or styling products on the hair, I think it is better to wash or rinse the hair first, then dry it.

Aloe vera gel contains more Vitamin C than raw lemon juice.

Aloe vera gel - about 350 mg per 8 oz or 240 ml (g) or 1 cup.
http://www.aloeveracanada.ca/about_av.html

Lemon juice, raw - 112 mg in 1 cup or 244 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20VG.html

"9. No ingredients that contain Vitamin C, (except ground cardamom, which has the highest peroxide value for a spice and a low Vitamin C level), should be used in the recipes. Hydrogen peroxide oxidizes Vitamin C and is depleted in doing so. Some honeys naturally contain higher levels of Vitamin C. Avoid using Anzer, buckwheat, linden flower, locust flower, mint and thyme honeys. Most honeys contain very low levels. Here is a list of ingredients that contain Vitamin C."
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=83009&postcount=429

If not - then it should be fine just to apply a honey lightening treatment on dry unwashed hair.

I mainly did that due to saving on water and laziness but if if helps others that's great. :)

Ammemded. See the recommendations post in my signature below.

Thank you Alley Cat.

"13. Mix the honey lightening recipe, everything at room temperature, and let the recipe sit for 1 hour, also at room temperature, to let the honey produce its maximum peroxide value. The hair should be freshly washed or rinsed first, and slightly damp or dry, if there is aloe gel on the hair (aloe gel contains Vitamin C), a Vitamin C containing unrinsed out rinse, heavy conditioner or styling products on the hair. If not, a honey lightening treatment can be applied to dry, unwashed hair. This should help make drips less of a problem (the treatment will drip more on already wet hair).
The recipes are liquid enough to fully saturate the hair. Apply the treatment with a tint, blush, basting brush or squirt bottle, pin the hair up, cover the hair with plastic and keep the treatment on the hair for about 1 hour. The plastic ensures that the hair is out of the way and that most of the drips are contained."
Your welcome. :)

Interesting, IMO.

To use the calculator, enter the measurement in the "Enter Amount" space, then highlight the measurements in each column below, and you automatically get the result. You do not have to click anything or hit enter, which I was doing, in error.
http://www.traditionaloven.com/conversions_of_measures/honey_measurements.html

1 cup honey Metric = 360 grams

1 cup honey US = 340 grams

So, depending on where you live and the measuring system you use - it can be fun or a challenge.

You can just do what Alley Cat does - use straight grams.

or straight ml - 1 gram = 1 ml

The differences are not huge. The conversion tables are US measurements.

1/8 cup honey Metric = 45 grams. You would need 180 grams or ml distilled water.

1/8 cup honey US = 42.5 grams. - You would need 170 grams or ml distilled water.

1/8 cup honey Metric = 2.12 tablespoons. You would need 8.48 tablespoons distilled water.

1/8 cup honey US = 2 tablespoons.----------You would need 8 tablespoons distilled water.

Using straight grams I find is easy as honey is so runny and getting a measurement with tablespoons or even a cup measurement was tricky. Grams is perfect if you have good scales. :thumbsup:

Alley Cat

I get as much from the reported results as I do from the research I read.

That is why I record results reports - I often go back and reread things I may have missed or there is something I had not thought of that a report is helpful with.

It is all good IMO.

It all works together.

Alley Cat

I get as much from the reported results as I do from the research I read.

That is why I record results reports - I often go back and reread things I may have missed or there is something I had not thought of that a report is helpful with.

It is all good IMO.

It all works together.


That's good. :)

I must say my hair has been so super soft since my last treatment . I would compare it to the softness I used to get after a henna treatment. I don't know why that would be but it's been lovely. :cheese:

That's good. :)

I must say my hair has been so super soft since my last treatment . I would compare it to the softness I used to get after a henna treatment. I don't know why that would be but it's been lovely. :cheese:

Alley Cat

I do not know why that would be either, but I am very happy to read it.

If your hair is so soft, to me it means that the Jarrah honey is not leaving much if any residue.

I have read about varied results after a henna treatment, including dry hair right after one.

It is great to know that for you, that was not the case and that the Jarrah honey is working out so well.

I thought that it would but thinking is not the same as getting reports on results.

I rely on all of you for that.

Even if I honey lightened, which I do not - my results would only be my results.

What I monitor this thread for are patterns from multiple results.

I have been researching the honey thread for a few weeks now and I think I'm ready for my first honey lightening treatment. I have dark honey, distilled water, EVOO, and cardamom-ground from a local Middle Eastern Grocery. My goal is to blend several inches of virgin new growth w/ chemically highlighted ends. I don't have food scales; will measuring by volume work? This is the plan... 1/4 cup honey, 1 cup distilled water, 1 Tblspn EVOO, 1 Tblspn cardamom. Mix all, let set 1 hr, apply to dry hair, and leave on at least one hour.

I have been researching the honey thread for a few weeks now and I think I'm ready for my first honey lightening treatment. I have dark honey, distilled water, EVOO, and cardamom-ground from a local Middle Eastern Grocery. My goal is to blend several inches of virgin new growth w/ chemically highlighted ends. I don't have food scales; will measuring by volume work? This is the plan... 1/4 cup honey, 1 cup distilled water, 1 Tblspn EVOO, 1 Tblspn cardamom. Mix all, let set 1 hr, apply to dry hair, and leave on at least one hour.Vainjane

Hi and welcome to LHC and Honey!

Thank you for posting your proposed recipe. It sounds perfect but you need to get the amount of distilled water right. Honey is heavier than water.

The 4 to 1 dilution is based on using 4 x the amount of water to honey by weight, which you can then convert.

You live in the U.S., so you can use US conversions.
http://www.traditionaloven.com/conversions_of_measures/honey_measurements.html

1/4 cup of honey US = 3 oz

So you need 12 oz of distilled water, which works out to 1 1/2 cups of distilled water. 1 cup of water = 8 oz.

Thanks for the correction. I will post again once I have done the first treatment and have pictures.

Thanks for the correction. I will post again once I have done the first treatment and have pictures.

Vainjane

You are very welcome.

If you find that the mix is too much for your hair, you can size it down.

1/8 cup of honey would need 6 oz of distilled water, etc.

I look forward to your results.

I have new pictures... both taken one right after the other, interesting that they are showing color differently. If you can imagine, the darker parts of the hair is the Indigo that turned my hair nearly black (all of my hair was this color at one point.) There is definite lightening happening. The only part of my hair that is stubbornly holding onto the black of the Indigo is the bottom 4" on each "side" of my head... perhaps this makes sense as that is where the worst of the damage occurred from over-bleaching.

The pictures will be quite large... I cannot get them to re-size. I've sent a request for help from the Mods...Edit to add: Thank you Flaxen!

Original Mix:
1/2 c honey
1/2 c conditioner
1 tsp EVOO
*great deep conditioner, but no lightening effect (that I could see)

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii267/LHC_2008/009.jpg
Starting point

Current Mix
1/2 c distilled water/ Edit to add: this needs to be increased to 3/4 cup
2 Tablespoon honey
1 Tablespoon cinnamon

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii267/LHC_2008/006.jpg
July '08 - about 7 months later

wintersun99

Yes, you have very definite lightening, IMO.

Please give me details for others on exactly what you used, did to achieve this - your recipe, method etc.

OK - the mixes have been edited to the post. I forgot to add that I did 2 mayo treatments this week, left on for about 2 hours as a protein treatment although I think they also helped with the Indigo fading, most especially on the under-layers (there is virtually NO indigo left there!) Not to mention how SOFT my new growth feels... sigh

wintersun99

Thank you for the recipes.

I am not surprised at the honey/conditioner recipes not giving you much lightening - conditioners can be difficult because of their ingredients.

That is why I no longer recommend that they be used in honey lightening.

They can also affect the 4 to 1 dilution because of their water content.

I do not know what is in your mayo, so I cannot comment on that. Can you please list the ingredients?



I am very pleased for you that the current recipe has increased the lightening that you started to get with the Second Adaptation.

I think that the amount of distilled water in your current mix for honey lightening, is off by 2 oz though, or 1/4 cup less than what it needs to be for the correct 4 to 1 dilution.

The 4 to 1 dilution is based on 4 x the amount of water to honey by weight - honey is heavier than water.

Your current recipe
1/2 cup distilled water - you need 3/4 cup if you used an 8 oz cup US measurement.
2 tablespoons honey = 1/8 cup US and 1/8 cup honey US = 1.5 oz by weight (x 4 = 6 oz = 3/4 cup)
1 tablespoon cinnamon

"1/8 cup of honey = 42.5 gram = 1.5 ounce = 2 tbl.sp" US measurements
http://www.traditionaloven.com/conversions_of_measures/honey_measurements.html

I think that with the needed increased distilled water, you will see even more lightening.



Your hair looks really shiny.

How is the condition of your hair after the honey lightening? I realize that the mayo made your hair soft - I am wondering how your hair was right after the honey lightening treatment.



I suggest that for your next treatment, with the dilution corrected, and everything mixed at room temperature, that you let the recipe sit for 1 hour, also at room temperature, to allow the honey to produce its maximum peroxide value, before you apply the treatment to your hair.

Alley Cat

I do not know why that would be either, but I am very happy to read it.

If your hair is so soft, to me it means that the Jarrah honey is not leaving much if any residue.

I have read about varied results after a henna treatment, including dry hair right after one.

It is great to know that for you, that was not the case and that the Jarrah honey is working out so well.

I thought that it would but thinking is not the same as getting reports on results.

I rely on all of you for that.

Even if I honey lightened, which I do not - my results would only be my results.

What I monitor this thread for are patterns from multiple results.

I will continue to see how my hair is after the treatments . I will probably step up the treatments as I need to get my roots done soon as they aren't pretty. I am doing another treatment again tonight.:)

Alley Cat

Thank you for continuing to report on the condition of your hair.

I look forward to your next report.

What is your natural colour?

I have made notes in the Pictures Post, to help clarify the 4 to 1 dilution, and hopefully make the calculations easier to understand.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=133707&postcount=1095

The Pictures Post is #15, in the recommendations post, linked in my signature below.

For me, the simplest way to understand the 4 to 1 dilution is by weight - 1 g = 1 ml.

50 g honey would require 200 g or ml distilled water.

For those who like to use cups - in US measurments.

For every 1/8 cup honey US, (2 tablespoons), use 3/4 cup distilled water.

For every 1/4 cup honey US, (4 tablespoons), use 1 1/2 cups distilled water.

wintersun99

Your hair looks really shiny.

How is the condition of your hair after the honey lightening? I realize that the mayo made your hair soft - I am wondering how your hair was right after the honey lightening treatment.

The condition was fine, it was soft and shiny. I didn't feel like it was as intensely conditioned as the honey/conditioner mix, which I realize is NOT the best for lightening. So I'm wondering: would the lightening mix work if I substituted coconut milk for the distilled water? I'm all for multi-tasking and if I could "up" my conditioning affect while still maximizing the lightening affect, I would love that! If it is counter-productive, that's ok too - I can always do a separate deep condition...let me know what ya think!

p.s. I am currently trying another lightening with the exact measurements you recommended (it's quite drippy) :)
1/8 cup honey, 3/4 cup distilled water, 1 tablespoon cinnamon

p.p.s the hair does look crazy shiny! I think it may still have some oil in it that didn't soak in, yet... it's not always that shiny :)

The condition was fine, it was soft and shiny. I didn't feel like it was as intensely conditioned as the honey/conditioner mix, which I realize is NOT the best for lightening. So I'm wondering: would the lightening mix work if I substituted coconut milk for the distilled water? I'm all for multi-tasking and if I could "up" my conditioning affect while still maximizing the lightening affect, I would love that! If it is counter-productive, that's ok too - I can always do a separate deep condition...let me know what ya think!

p.s. I am currently trying another lightening with the exact measurements you recommended (it's quite drippy) :)
1/8 cup honey, 3/4 cup distilled water, 1 tablespoon cinnamon

p.p.s the hair does look crazy shiny! I think it may still have some oil in it that didn't soak in, yet... it's not always that shiny :)

wintersun99

I am glad to hear that the honey lightening recipe left your hair soft and shiny.

No, I do not recommend using coconut milk as a substitute for distilled water.

Coconut milk, canned, contains a small amount of Vitamin C but it also contains iron, both of which can deplete peroxide and there is not enough water in it to use it as a substitute.
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/nut-and-seed-products/3114/2

You would be much better off to use it separately, after honey lightening, as a conditioning treatment.

Your new recipe sounds perfect.

And whether or not it is partly from the mayo - "crazy shiny" sounds good to me.

good to know! guess I'll keep my two steps separate... that's probably better anyway, why mess with what works? :)

wintersun99

Both coconut cream and coconut milk were used previously in honey lightening.

I now know more about how Vitamin C and minerals can affect peroxide, as well the the importance of the correct dilution.

And I understand why the results using the old recipes were so very gradual.

The honey was not diluted well enough and the peroxide in the recipes was depleted from more than one source in some cases - the ingredients as well as the water used.

“What factors contribute to the decomposition of H2O2?
.... primary factors contributing to H2O2 decomposition …. increasing temperature …. increasing contamination (especially .... metals such as copper, manganese or iron) ....
http://www.h2o2.com/intro/faq.html#2

It is the coconut oil in the coconut milk and cream that has the peroxide value, and coconut oil contains no Vitamin C, and has no minerals in it except .1 mg of iron per cup.
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/fats-and-oils/508/2

Just a reminder.

All updates and relevant information from this thread, are added to the recommendations post, linked in my signature below, either to the recommendations text or in the links provided.

Ooh, I think I'll try this! Either tomorrow or the day after. *Sorts through kitchen cupboard* I have Scottish Heather and Spanish Orange Blossom. Unless you guys recommend otherwise, I think I'll try the orange blossom first - the heather honey tastes nicer!

Am I allowed to post photos when I do it? I'm not sure I can while I'm still a newbie.
How much can you do this before it starts damaging your hair? How many shades lighter can you go, I mean. Because peroxide is never good for hair, but it sounds like honey really is. Is there a stage where the peroxide outweighs the honey? (if that makes any sense...)

Ooh, I think I'll try this! Either tomorrow or the day after. *Sorts through kitchen cupboard* I have Scottish Heather and Spanish Orange Blossom. Unless you guys recommend otherwise, I think I'll try the orange blossom first - the heather honey tastes nicer!

Am I allowed to post photos when I do it? I'm not sure I can while I'm still a newbie.
How much can you do this before it starts damaging your hair? How many shades lighter can you go, I mean. Because peroxide is never good for hair, but it sounds like honey really is. Is there a stage where the peroxide outweighs the honey? (if that makes any sense...)

HalcyonDays

Hi and welcome to LHC and Honey!

I cannot say what you can do about pictures but they are always welcome here.

Before you try anything, please read the link in my signature below. Just click on the link.

It should answer most of your questions, including how often you can honey lighten, which is however often you like, IMO.

That is covered in #14.

If you have any questions after that, please post - I always reply.

Oh yeah, I read that... then forgot... :doh:
Thanks lol

I'll let you know how it goes!

HalcyonDays

No worries.

I designed it to be a checklist.

It is also updated very frequently - as soon as possible after something new comes up.

So it is always good to read it over once in awhile, IMO.

It will keep you current with what is happening here, instead of you having to go through pages of posts, if I am not online to help out.

I keep records of where most things can be found.

I also made notes recently in #15, to help with the 4 to 1 dilution calculations.

I cannot predict how much lightening anyone can get from honey lightening.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Wow - I see how you earned the title of Honey Geek - you must be really dedicated :)

I suppose much of the peroxide level depends on what sort of flowers the bees visited does it? (lol that sounded much more twee than I anticipated). Are there any sort of honeys that are particularly high in it, do you know?

I'm quite excited - my hair is a dull sort of darkish mid-brown and I'd love it to be a slightly more blonde colour. I know it probably won't go that much lighter, but even just slightly lighter would be great.

Wow - I see how you earned the title of Honey Geek - you must be really dedicated :)

I suppose much of the peroxide level depends on what sort of flowers the bees visited does it? (lol that sounded much more twee than I anticipated). Are there any sort of honeys that are particularly high in it, do you know?

I'm quite excited - my hair is a dull sort of darkish mid-brown and I'd love it to be a slightly more blonde colour. I know it probably won't go that much lighter, but even just slightly lighter would be great.

HalcyonDays

Thank you - I am dedicated.

I chose the name Honey Geek, lol.

The peroxide level of a honey is determined by the plant source.

This is a breakdown from the recommendations post. It should be easier to follow.

Choosing a honey - the Successful Honeys List
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=119128&postcount=856itamin

"If one cannot be found - try a dark coloured honey blend - raw or pasteurized - both have been reported to work equally well. Dark coloured blends were reported in research, to have higher peroxide levels than lighter coloured blends. A dark coloured, single source honey, does not necessarily have a high peroxide value - it depends on the plant source."

Jarrah honey - highly recommended - it has a very high peroxide value
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=157257&postcount=1266

Some honeys naturally contain higher levels of Vitamin C. Avoid using Anzer, buckwheat, linden flower, locust flower, mint and thyme honeys.

Alley Cat

Thank you for continuing to report on the condition of your hair.

I look forward to your next report.

What is your natural colour?
Your welcome.:)
I am not sure what the natural colour of my hair is I have been colouring my hair for years and will continue . I think I will just lighten this for a bit longer and then put a colour in it to cover the greys that are coming through.
I was reading through the posts further on and it doesn't seem that it is known how long someones hair will continue to lighten.
I wonder if someone with natural colour hair would lighten easier than someone like myself with henna and chemical colours in their hair?
In a way I wouldn't mind trying to get a lot lighter and then putting colours over as I do really like having a reddish look to my hair but have gotten sick of colouring my hair with henna. It does seem to be a slow process for myself unlike someone like Jan In ID who looked noticeably a different colour :shrug: I believe she was someone with natural coloured hair?

Alley Cat

Yes, Jan in ID's hair colour was virgin before honey lightening.

And yes - honey lightening can be a slower process over henna and colour-treated hair.

The reason no one can predict how light someone can go with honey lightening, is because you have to factor in the starting hair colour, plus whatever else is on it - henna, henndigo etc.

The new recipes, based on reports, are working much, much faster than any of the old ones.

But the dilution needs to be correct, the honey good, distilled water used - there are variables.

I just changed the recommendation to letting a recipe sit for 1 hour, before applying it to the hair, from it being an option, to the only recommended method.

I keep thinking of ways to improve the recipes and method for honey lightening.

The reports on results will tell just how far one can take honey lightening.

Alley Cat

Yes, Jan in ID's hair colour was virgin before honey lightening.

And yes - honey lightening can be a slower process over henna and colour-treated hair.

The reason no one can predict how light someone can go with honey lightening, is because you have to factor in the starting hair colour, plus whatever else is on it - henna, henndigo etc.

The new recipes, based on reports, are working much, much faster than any of the old ones.

But the dilution needs to be correct, the honey good, distilled water used - there are variables.

I just changed the recommendation to letting a recipe sit for 1 hour, before applying it to the hair, from it being an option, to the only recommended method.

I keep thinking of ways to improve the recipes and method for honey lightening.

The reports on results will tell just how far one can take honey lightening.



Thanks for that. :) Gosh I think the last time I had virgin colour hair was over 20 years ago. :bigeyes:

Alley Cat

You are most welcome.

If the report on condition of the hair, is in a separate post from the reported results with pictures, I am now going to add it to the Pictures Post.

No one, in the 5 Honey threads to date, including this one, has reported damage; weak, thin, broken, split, or gummy hair, following honey lightening, even after multiple treatments, over long periods of time.

These signs of damage have been reported, after using conventional peroxide, in other threads.

A breakdown of the newest honey lightening recommendations, which have been reported to be working out very well. This is all in the recommendations post in my signature.

Patch test any of the ingredients not previously used on scalp or skin.

1. Choose a honey - the Successful Honeys List
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=119128&postcount=856itamin

If one cannot be found - try a dark coloured honey blend - raw or pasteurized - both have been reported to work equally well. Dark coloured blends were reported in research, to have higher peroxide levels than lighter coloured blends. A dark coloured, single source honey, does not necessarily have a high peroxide value - it depends on the plant source.

Jarrah honey - highly recommended - it has a very high peroxide value. More information and suppliers can be found here.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=157257&postcount=1266

Some honeys naturally contain higher levels of Vitamin C. Avoid using Anzer, buckwheat, linden flower, locust flower, mint and thyme honeys.

2. Use distilled water only. It contains no minerals. Minerals can deplete the recipe peroxide (so can Vitamin C, see #5). Conditioner is no longer recommended for honey lightening. Its pH, ingredients and per centage of water can interfere with results. The same applies to coconut cream and milk (they also contain minerals and Vitamin C, as well as not enough water to properly dilute honey).

3. Use the new dilution (4 x the amount of water to honey by weight) - e.g. 1/8 cup honey needs 3/4 cup US (1/2 cup Metric) or 12 tablespoons distilled water. 50 g honey needs 200 g distilled water etc. Here is a conversion link.
http://www.traditionaloven.com/conversions_of_measures/honey_measurements.html

4. Do not apply heat to any of the recipe ingredients at any time. Peroxide containing boosters are ground cardamom, ground cinnamon, extra virgin olive oil and coconut oil. Suggested amounts per recipe are; 1-2 tablespoons for the spices, 1 tablespoon or less for the oils.

5. Do not add lemon juice, or any other ingredient that contains Vitamin C to a recipe, like tomato products, which are no longer recommended. Hydrogen peroxide oxidizes Vitamin C, and is depleted in doing so.

6. Mix the treatment at room temperature and let it sit for 1 hour, also at room temperature, to allow the honey to produce peroxide in advance of application or use it right away and the honey will produce peroxide while on the hair.

7. Apply the treatment to wet or dry hair if there is no aloe gel on it - aloe gel contains Vitamin C, or a leave-in treatment with Vitamin C, heavy residue, or a large amount of oil on the hair (a large amount of oil will act as a barrier to the water). If there is, wash or rinse the hair first. The treatment can be applied with a tint, blush, pastry brush and/or a spray or squirt bottle.

8. Pin up, then cover the hair securely with plastic (wearing a swim cap is recommended), to keep it out of the way, competely wet (the hair needs to be very wet with the treatment, both before and while covered) and contain drips. Leave the treatment on the hair for about 1 hour.

Wow - two silly questions in one evening - I had just read the list of honeys when I asked what honeys were good :doh: Sorry lol
I blame it on the fact that I was getting on for 40 hours without sleep so my brain had decided to go to sleep without me.

And now I have honey on my hair! :D I hope it works!!

PS - thanks for the new guidelines - much easier for my little mind to digest lol

Wow - two silly questions in one evening - I had just read the list of honeys when I asked what honeys were good :doh: Sorry lol
I blame it on the fact that I was getting on for 40 hours without sleep so my brain had decided to go to sleep without me.

And now I have honey on my hair! :D I hope it works!!

HalcyonDays

I do not think any questions are silly.

You helped me realize how densely packed the text is in the recommendations post.

I broke it down for those in a hurry or like you - who are tired after a long day, or in your case, without much sleep at all.

The details are in the recommendations post, because of the many questions I get, so I am keeping the extra information there, for those who want more of an explanation.

I look forward to your report on results.

PS - thanks for the new guidelines - much easier for my little mind to digest lol

HalcyonDays

You are most welcome.

So here are the results -

Before

http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn323/HalcyonDays_photos/DSCN0236.jpg

______

After

http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn323/HalcyonDays_photos/DSCN0256.jpg


Oh dear, I really need to tidy my room and clean my mirror...

But anyway, there does seem to be quite a difference. I got a bit of residue on the ends I think - hence the spikiness. But the colour is quite a bit lighter. Woohoo!! Success!

So here are the results -

Before

http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn323/HalcyonDays_photos/DSCN0236.jpg

______

After
<