Honey thread - from TBB and bits from old LHC [Archive] - Page 6 - The Long Hair Community Discussion Boards

ktani

June 19th, 2008, 06:03 AM

Sissilonghair

June 19th, 2008, 06:31 AM

Sissilonghair

I did find references on the net to a bitter honey that is sourced from chestnut blossoms - blossoms from all plants are where bees get the nectar and pollen needed to make honey.

"Italian Chestnut honey .... gift from the chestnut orchard."
http://www.babbonyc.com/in-chestnuts.html

"Chestnut honey .... pungent and unmistakable flavor .... aftertaste .... reminiscent of .... bitter almond ...."
http://www.foodandwine.com/recipes/crepes-with-ricotta-and-chestnut-honey

Until I can get the Jarrah honey post ready - I still think that you are better off with a cheap, dark coloured honey blend, after reading recommendation #9.

According to this, chestnut honey is high in iron - not good for a peroxide value - hydrogen peroxide is negatively affected by metals - iron included. See "Different kinds of honey on the market"
http://www.consumerbuyguide.com/guides/food_beverage/honey.html
That was so interesting to read ktani ,I want to thank you again for the care you have about sending me all these informations...remember I will be always glad:)

ktani

June 19th, 2008, 06:37 AM

Sissilonghair

I am happy to help.

The Jarrah honey in my opionion is a good bet for honey lightening. I can of course not promise anything but the information on its peroxide value is reliable as far as I am concerned.

However, I do not know how the prices and shipping will turn out.

They did have a drought earlier in the season in that region of Australia - the Jarrah forrest and stock will be more expensive and in short supply until the new honey comes in.

There will hopefully be new stock soon.

Sissilonghair

June 19th, 2008, 07:05 AM

Jarrah honey is known to have a very high peroxide value.

“WA scientists claim jarrah honey benefit
…. Manuka honey .... New Zealand honey .... peroxide levels of about 18 per cent on average .... But we’re finding peroxide levels 54 per cent higher, with an average of about 28 per cent .... a very big increase ...."
http://www.beelinehoney.com.au/Jarrah.pdf (http://www.beelinehoney.com.au/Jarrah.pdf)

Jarrah honey suppliers I found and contacted - prices and shipping costs vary as will stock amounts.
There are no doubt more suppliers out there - this to start you off. As more are reported, I will add them to this list.

International shipping will be noted with an asterisk - *

1. Their price list and they report Jarrah honey in stock. I do not know about international shipping. They did not report back to me on that.
Prices
http://www.beesneez.com.au/price-list.html (http://www.beesneez.com.au/price-list.html)
Contact page
http://www.beesneez.com.au/contact.html (http://www.beesneez.com.au/contact.html)

*2. Yes to Jarrah honey in stock and they ship internationally. This one seems to be fast on replies to inqiries.
Contact page
http://www.beehappy.com.au/aboutus.htm (http://www.beehappy.com.au/aboutus.htm)
Order page with prices
http://www.beehappy.com.au/orderform.htm (http://www.beehappy.com.au/orderform.htm)

3. I contacted these people - Tuesday June 17/08 - waiting to hear back about international shipping and stock. I will update when I hear back.
Contact page
http://www.beelinehoney.com.au/contact.htm (http://www.beelinehoney.com.au/contact.htm)
Prices and email
http://www.beelinehoney.com.au/Products.pdf (http://www.beelinehoney.com.au/Products.pdf)

There was a 4th supplier but they reported insufficient stock due to the drought.
I was looking at the very interesting site and their price are not bad at all...I am worried about the shipping cost though.
I was reading that this type of honey is good even if you get a cut..it is a good antibacterial...

ktani

June 19th, 2008, 07:18 AM

I adjusted/removed the bold text in the Jarrah honey post, corrected spelling, added "yet" to a supplier's information, edited out the reference to a missing 4th supplier - and added the post link to all recommendations posts - anyone who saved a recommendations link is now fully up to date. I will update that post as needed.

This is one of the recommendations links - they are all the same. See #10
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096

ktani

June 19th, 2008, 07:21 AM

Sissilonghair

Yes, prices and shipping will be a concern.

There is supposed to be - if the weather permits - new Jarrah honey coming soon - that should help lower prices - shipping I cannot say - the prices will vary.

Hopefully there will be more than one supplier who ships internationally - I could at this time - only confirm one.

As to the antibacterial aspects of the honey - yes - the peroxide value is key for that - UMF manuka honey is also excellent - it has the Unique Manuka Factor - which is separate from the peroxide value - and helps fight infection.

ktani

June 19th, 2008, 08:03 AM

Jarrah honey is known to have a very high peroxide value.

“WA scientists claim jarrah honey benefit
Manuka honey .... New Zealand honey .... peroxide levels of about 18 per cent on average .... But we’re finding peroxide levels 54 per cent higher, with an average of about 28 per cent .... a very big increase ...."
http://www.beelinehoney.com.au/Jarrah.pdf

see "Comparing Different Types of Honey" - date 2008
"found Jarrah honey .... contains higher amounts of glucose oxidase .... significantly more effective against Candida spp. in vitro ...."
http://ecam.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/nem175

Glucose oxidase is the enzyme in honey that produces hydrogen peroxide.

Jarrah honey suppliers I found and contacted - prices and shipping costs vary as will stock amounts. There are no doubt more suppliers out there - this to start you off. As more are reported, I will add them to this list.

International shipping will be noted with an asterisk - *

*1. Their price list and they report Jarrah honey in stock. They do provide international shipping.
Prices
http://www.beesneez.com.au/price-list.html (http://www.beesneez.com.au/price-list.html)
Contact page
http://www.beesneez.com.au/contact.html (http://www.beesneez.com.au/contact.html)

*2. Yes to Jarrah honey in stock and they ship internationally. This one seems to be fast on replies to inquiries.
Contact page
http://www.beehappy.com.au/aboutus.htm (http://www.beehappy.com.au/aboutus.htm)
Order page with prices
http://www.beehappy.com.au/orderform.htm (http://www.beehappy.com.au/orderform.htm)

3. I contacted these people - Tuesday June 17/08 - waiting to hear back about international shipping and stock. I will update when I hear back.
Contact page
http://www.beelinehoney.com.au/contact.htm (http://www.beelinehoney.com.au/contact.htm)
Prices and email
http://www.beelinehoney.com.au/Products.pdf (http://www.beelinehoney.com.au/Products.pdf)

In addition to some text editing - removing bold and the reference to a 4th supplier who did not have stock - I added more current information on Jarrah honey, which supports the information in the pdf - the link above it.

ktani

June 19th, 2008, 11:03 AM

I found and emailed another Jarrah honey supplier - I am waiting to hear back and will only add them to the list if they do reply - I have no idea if they have stock or what their shipping is like in terms of whether they ship internationally.

The drought in Australia has put stock at risk for some suppliers but not all and not all websites are updated.

ktani

June 19th, 2008, 04:31 PM

A Comprehensive Summary of the newest honey lightening recommendations. Patch test any ingredient not previously used on the scalp or skin.

These recommendations are based on accredited research and successful honey lightening reports in this thread.

1. The 4 to 1 dilution is 4 parts water to 1 part honey. It is now the recommended dilution to be used for honey lightening. With this dilution, a treatment only needs to be left on the hair for 1 hour, because a honey will produce its maximum amount of peroxide in that time. The minimum amount of honey to be used is 10 grams. Here is a honey conversion table - See "Convert cup of honey into grams g, ounces oz or tablespoons." Use 4 times the amount of water by weight, e.g. 40 grams water to 10 grams of honey. You can also convert to ml, because 1 gram = 1 ml.
http://www.traditionaloven.com/conversions_of_measures/honey_measurements.html
According to reports posted in this thread, better results were achieved with the 4 to 1 dilution in 1 hour, than with repeated treatments using the old dilutions. Different honeys produce different levels of peroxide. Here is the Successful Honeys List - if one cannot be found - try a dark coloured honey blend - raw or pasteurized - both have been reported to work equally well.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=119128&postcount=856itamin

2. Distilled water is recommended to be used for honey lightening in place of plain water. It is a better choice, for getting the best results from a honey lightening recipe because hydrogen peroxide can decompose in contact with certain minerals. More information on distilled water can be found here.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=146265&postcount=1173

3. The honey lightening boosters - ingredients that add extra peroxide to the recipes are; ground cardamom, ground cinnamon, coconut oil, extra virgin olive oil.
Spices can be irritating - less is more with the 4 to 1 dilution - start with 1 tablespoon after patch testing - suggested maximum - 2 tablespoons.
Oils can be difficult to wash out of the hair - suggested amount - 1 tablespoon.

4. Herbal teas if used instead of straight distilled water - chamomile - Roman chamomile is preferable but it is possible that chamomile can add a gold tone to the hair. Mullein - leaves only not flowers - the leaves are not known to add colour. The herbal tea should be brewed with distilled water.

5. Herbal tea that is used with honey lightening needs to be cooled first to room temperature before any other ingredients are added to it. Do not add spices to a recipe after you have applied the recipe to your hair - if any dry spice spills - you risk skin irritation - mix the spices into a recipe. The spices will blend better, mixed into herbal tea, when the honey is added first.

6. For blondes, lighter hair colours, and hair colours where one does not want the possibility of added colour, distilled water is better than risking added colour by using a herbal tea.

7. Distilled water used with honey lightening should be room temperature only. Do not add spices to a recipe after you have applied the recipe to your hair - if any dry spice spills - you risk skin irritation - mix the spices into a recipe. The spices will blend better, mixed into water, when the honey is added first.

8. No external heat should be used with honey lightening - no blow dryers, sunlight. None of the recipe ingredients except herbal tea should be heated at any time. Heat (except body heat) can destroy hydrogen peroxide by decomposing it to water and oxygen. It depends on the degree of heat and the amount of time that it is applied. Pasteurization does not destroy the enzyme in honey that produces peroxide.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=119678&postcount=883

9. No ingredients that contain Vitamin C, (except ground cardamom, which has the highest peroxide value for a spice and a low Vitamin C level), should be used in the recipes. Hydrogen peroxide oxidizes Vitamin C and is depleted in doing so. Some honeys naturally contain higher levels of Vitamin C. Avoid using Anzer, buckwheat, linden flower, locust flower, mint and thyme honeys. Most honeys contain very low levels. Here is a list of ingredients that contain Vitamin C.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=83009&postcount=429

10. Jarrah honey, from Australia, is known for its very high peroxide value and is a good choice for honey lightening. Information on Jarrah honey and current suppliers can be found here.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=157257&postcount=1266

11. Conditioner is no longer recommended to be included in honey lightening recipes. Conditioner can contain ingredients that interfere with honey lightening and because of its water content (most conditioners are between 70 to 90 % water), if used as part of the 4 to 1 ratio, shorten the amount of water needed for optimal honey dilution. You can use conditioner only, to wash out a honey lightening treatment, instead of using shampoo or just rinsing it out. If there is honey residue, shampoo and or a vinegar rinse is recommended and has been reported to easily resolve the problem.

12. The honey lightening recipes can be applied with a tint or blush brush for more control of placement.

13. Cover the hair during the 1 hour needed for the treatments, with plastic, a bag, wrap or shower cap, to ensure the best results. This provides a constant moisture level, and allows the honey to produce peroxide uninterrupted. If the hair starts to dry, the honey slows its production of peroxide and it will stop producing peroxide altogether, if the hair dries completely. An option is misting the hair without the use of plastic, provided that the hair is kept wet at all times during the treatment. Honey only produces peroxide when diluted and kept wet. The treatments can be left on the hair longer than 1 hour, if so desired. You can also let a recipe sit for 1 hour before applying it, to allow the honey to produce its maximum peroxide value.

14. Honey lightening has not been reported to damage hair even after repeated use, over long periods of time. What has been reported occasionally is dry hair and crunchy ends. That is a honey residue result, and can easily be resolved by shampooing and or a vinegar rinse. The effects are temporary when shampoo and or vinegar are used. Some honeys leave less residues than others. More on honey lightening, and research on the protective mechanisms in honey lightening recipe ingredients, can be found here.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=127314&postcount=1035

15. This is the updated Pictures Post of some past and current Honey thread, honey lightening results.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=133707&postcount=1095

The recommendations - updated.

mommy2one05

June 19th, 2008, 08:39 PM

ktani

June 19th, 2008, 08:58 PM

Ok so I was gonna try the honey and water in a misting bottle today. I mixed it up and was gonna let it set for one hour before putting on my hair but then I had to leave the house unexpectedly for some errends and it set for alot longer than an hour so now can I still use it or will it not have the lightening properties? If I can then can I mix it up the night before I plan to spray it on my hair?
Now I mixed 1 cup water and 1/4 cup honey...am I right with that?

mommy2one05

You should still be able to use what you mixed.

I know realize for 1/4 cup of honey you need 340 grams of water - or 16 tablespoons.

Using a mister is fine - you can cover your hair or let it dry - both should work - I am not so sure about the let it dry part - that is theory.

If you use a fresh mix - not left to sit - you will need to cover your hair with plastic for the hour so that the honey can produce peroxide with a constant moisture level.

mommy2one05

June 19th, 2008, 09:41 PM

mommy2one05

You should still be able to use what you mixed.

I know realize for 1/4 cup of honey you need 340 grams of water - or 16 tablespoons.

Using a mister is fine - you can cover your hair or let it dry - both should work - I am not so sure about the let it dry part - that is theory.

If you use a fresh mix - not left to sit - you will need to cover your hair with plastic for the hour so that the honey can produce peroxide with a constant moisture level.

ok thanks so much for your help
so if I understand right I could even use more of what is in my mist bottle if i don't use it all this time...like maybe in a couple days?

ktani

June 19th, 2008, 09:46 PM

mommy2one05

I do not know how long the mix will stay potent - certainly for a few hours.

I usually recommend making a fresh batch each time.

I would not keep a batch - refridgerated - more that a few days max.

ktani

June 19th, 2008, 10:21 PM

mommy2one05

Good luck with the treatment.

Please feel free to pm and or post to let me know how it goes and if you have any questions I can help with.

ktani

June 20th, 2008, 06:58 AM

Anyone can pm me with honey lightening questions if they do not want to post here.

I am happy to help if I can.

mommy2one05

June 20th, 2008, 09:29 AM

Maybe I will try the lightening honey treatment on my hair this weekend.
this morning I was limited on time and decided to do another smt instead.
if only I had more time :)

ktani

June 20th, 2008, 10:37 AM

mommy2one05

Time is a problem for most of us - good luck.

ktani

June 20th, 2008, 04:09 PM

Jarrah honey is known to have a very high peroxide value.

“WA scientists claim jarrah honey benefit
Manuka honey .... New Zealand honey .... peroxide levels of about 18 per cent on average .... But we’re finding peroxide levels 54 per cent higher, with an average of about 28 per cent .... a very big increase ...."
http://www.beelinehoney.com.au/Jarrah.pdf

see "Comparing Different Types of Honey" - date 2008
"found Jarrah honey .... contains higher amounts of glucose oxidase .... significantly more effective against Candida spp. in vitro ...."
http://ecam.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/nem175

Glucose oxidase is the enzyme in honey that produces hydrogen peroxide.

Jarrah honey suppliers I found and contacted - prices and shipping costs vary as will stock amounts. There are no doubt more suppliers out there - this to start you off. As more are reported, I will add them to this list.

International shipping will be noted with an asterisk - *

*1. Their price list and they report Jarrah honey in stock. They do ship internationally.
Prices
http://www.beesneez.com.au/price-list.html (http://www.beesneez.com.au/price-list.html)
Contact page
http://www.beesneez.com.au/contact.html (http://www.beesneez.com.au/contact.html)

*2. Yes to Jarrah honey in stock and they ship internationally. This one seems to be fast on replies to inquiries.
Contact page
http://www.beehappy.com.au/aboutus.htm (http://www.beehappy.com.au/aboutus.htm)
Order page with prices
http://www.beehappy.com.au/orderform.htm (http://www.beehappy.com.au/orderform.htm)

Updated - international shipping and I removed one supplier that has no stock.

ktani

June 21st, 2008, 09:24 AM

Concern has been raised about shipping honey from Australia - whether it will be exposed to extremes in weather this time of year - heat in particular.

Most packages that are shipped by vendors are in boxes - well wrapped and are put on trucks, planes etc.

Then they sit in depots before delivery.

I doubt very much that such packages are exposed to extreme weather conditions.

ktani

June 21st, 2008, 09:48 AM

I emailed one of the Jarrah honey supppliers and asked directly how they ship their honey and if there is a risk of the honey becoming heated during shipping.

I will report back when I hear from them.

I simply asked about packaging and if the honey would be at risk from extremes in temperature.

ktani

June 21st, 2008, 10:10 AM

Here are some honeys to avoid using in honey lightening.

"Some honeys naturally contain higher levels of Vitamin C. Avoid using Anzer, buckwheat, linden flower, locust flower, mint and thyme honeys. Most honeys contain very low levels." See #9
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096

Also avoid using chestnut honey - it is high in iron - high levels of iron can deplete hydrogen peroxide.

Here is the Successful Honeys List. It is constantly updated.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=119128&postcount=856itamin

The Pictures Post - links to pictures of Honey thread, past and current honey lightening results.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=133707&postcount=1095

bettertress

June 21st, 2008, 02:26 PM

ktani

June 21st, 2008, 02:35 PM

Ktani,

First, thanks so much for all the honey-lightening help. For those of us with henndigo disasters, your work is deeply appreciated.

I'm trying a honey mix- 1/4 cup honey, 1cup water, 1Tblsp EVOO- and I have half of it left over. I'm pretty sure it doesn't keep, but thought I would check. If I can do another round of honey tomorrow with this mix I will. If you think I should throw it out, I'll just mix up a new batch, but use half the amounts.

Also- I let the honey sit for an hour before putting it on. I'll let you know how it turns out.
nette

bettertress

You are most welcome.

Thank you for posting your recipe.

Actually - it should be 340 grams of water - or 16 tablespoons to 1/4 cup of honey - the weight measurement threw me off for a while.

I am sure that what you did is fine - use the conversion for future reference - it may help adding that extra water.

I do not think that the peroxide degrades that quickly - a treatment kept longer than a day - refridgerated - was reported to still be potent - I just do not recommend taking it too far.

A few days max - and I cannot say for sure how potent a treatment will still be after that.

I look forward to your results.

Henndigo seems to respond well to peroxide boosters - that is down to the honey IMO.

If a honey has a good peroxide value - the boosters are not necessary - but that is hard to tell - unless like Jarrah honey, a honey is known to have a high peroxide value.

mellie got great results on both henndigo and multiple layers of henna with no peroxide boosters. She used the same honey though - Laney alfalfa honey. Clover honey did not work for her but with the clover honey she used a squeeze of lemon - the clover honey peroxide level was not high enough to deal with the Vitamin C and lighten her hair. Using a lemon squeeze with the alfalfa honey still worked. I definitely do not recommend it though. Hydrogen peroxide is depleted when it oxidizes Vitamin C.

The only ingredient that contains Viramin C that should be used for honey lightening is cardamom, with its extra high peroxide level - which compensates for its very low Vitamin C level. Cardamom has been reported to work very well.

Jan in ID

June 21st, 2008, 02:48 PM

doesn't 16 tbs = 1 cup?

I am asking because I am getting ready to mix up a batch and want to make sure I am understanding this correctly.
thanks

ktani

June 21st, 2008, 03:04 PM

doesn't 16 tbs = 1 cup?

I am asking because I am getting ready to mix up a batch and want to make sure I am understanding this correctly.
thanks

Jan in ID

I was double checking grams and cup measurements the other day when I found this link.
http://www.traditionaloven.com/conversions_of_measures/honey_measurements.html

There is a conversion table under the conversion calculator in the link. It is the second or last one.

It goes by weight and equivalents.

I put it all into this post.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=156655&postcount=1262

Jan in ID

June 21st, 2008, 03:21 PM

OK, I don't have any way to weigh grams, so are your saying the 340 grams of water is equal to 16 tablespoons of water?

ktani

June 21st, 2008, 03:39 PM

I added the honey conversion table to all versions of the recommendations post.

See #1
See "Convert cup of honey into grams g, ounces oz or tablespoons." http://www.traditionaloven.com/conversions_of_measures/honey_measurements.html

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096

1 cup is normally 8 fluid oz but 1 cup of honey is 12 oz.

1 cup of water is only 237 grams
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/beverages/9238/2

This website is in agreement on honey - 1 gram shy of 340 for 1 cup.
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/sweets/5568/2

1/4 cup of honey would be 85 grams or 4 tablespoons. So you would need 340 grams or 16 tablespoons of water for every 1/4 cup of honey.

"Weigh 10 g honey .... mix with 40 g .... distilled water."
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/H2O2.html

That is the minimum - so just go from there.

That is easier, IMO.

You want 4 times the amount of water to the amount of honey - so for 1/4 cup of honey - you would need 16 tablespoons of water.

"1 cup of honey, 340 gram, 12 oz, 16 tbl.sp"
http://www.traditionaloven.com/conversions_of_measures/honey_measurements.html

Jan in ID

June 21st, 2008, 03:41 PM

OK, so 1 cup of water. :)
thanks

ktani

June 21st, 2008, 03:43 PM

Jan in ID

It is actually 1 1/2 cups of water - depending on how you see it - if you go by your measuring cup.

Jan in ID

June 21st, 2008, 03:52 PM

you keep saying I need 16 tablespoons of water to 1/4 cup of honey, correct?

Well, 16 tablespoons equals 1 cup (or 8 fluid ounces), no matter if it is honey or water or anything else

I am not trying to be argumentative, but when you mix weight and liquid measurements, things can get confusing.

ktani

June 21st, 2008, 04:04 PM

Jan in ID

I do not think that you are being argumentative - it confused me too.

That is just it - they are not the same.

1 cup of honey is 340 grams or 12 oz.

This website is in agreement on honey - 1 gram shy of 340 for 1 cup.
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/sweets/5568/2

I cup of water is 237 grams or 8 oz.
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/beverages/9238/2

If as the research link recommended - you go by weight - then it is 1 1/2 cups of water to 1/4 cup of honey.

"Weigh 10 g honey .... mix with 40 g .... distilled water."
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/H2O2.html

Jan in ID

June 21st, 2008, 04:36 PM

OK, I can see where you are coming from now...

I just weighted one cup of water (8 fl oz) and it weights 8 oz also.
I never know that, but then again, I never had reason to weigh a cup of water! ;)

I though you were trying to say that one cup of honey was 12 fluid oz, not weight ounces.

Since we are dealing with liquids, I think this would be much easier to understand if the measurements used were liquid instead of weights.

Anyway, you have some really great information in this thread. Thanks for all of your hard work!

I will try to post pictures of my results soon. This is my thrid treatment using this recipe (my version! :D )

ktani

June 21st, 2008, 04:43 PM

Jan in ID

You are most welcome.

I did not realize my error until a few days ago - I asked for help and everyone I asked was confused too, lol.

It took me a while to figure it out.

But - weight is the key. And that is why I used the conversion to 16 tablespoons - instead of just weight and added the conversion table to the recommendations posts - to try to make it easier to understand. Not everyone has weight scales.

It does take getting used to.

40 grams = 40 ml - if that helps - 1ml = 1 gram.

So - the 4 to 1 dilution as it has been used up to now has been off by 1/2 cup of water if one has used 1 cup of water to 1/4 cup of honey.

The results reported though have been excellent IMO.

All this means is that with the corrected dilution - which is the real 4 parts water to 1 part honey - results should be even better.

I look forward to your results. And what is your recipe, please?

Jan in ID

June 21st, 2008, 05:28 PM

ktani

June 21st, 2008, 05:40 PM

OK, here are a couple of pictures...

This is my hair on 04/20/08, when I first decided to let my hair grow out.
This is my natural virgin hair.

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/JanInId/hairo042008.jpg

This one is from today, 06/21/08, after 2 honey treatments.

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/JanInId/hair062108.jpg

My hair definately appers to be lighter.
And wow, I can really see a difference in growth!
This is the first comparison pic I have taken!

I have another treatment (my 3rd) on my hair as I type this.
My recipe is:

1 cup distilled water
1/4 cup raw honey
1 tbs evoo
1 tbs coconut oil
2 tbs cinnamon powder (I will probably cut this back to 1 tbs because it clumps so bad)

I bought a squirt bottle yesterday and it works well. My DH puts it in my hair for me.
I leave it on for a couple of hours, sometimes more.

I have to lather and rinse several times (I use CV shampoo bars), and my hair is still greasy looking when it drys. I just leave it and wash again like normal the next day and it is fine. My hair is soft and shiny!
I have been doing this once a week for the last 3 weeks.

I will try to post a pic tomorrow of the results of todays treatment.

Jan in Id

WOW - you definitely have some lightening there - beautiful - and your hair is gorgeous.

I will add your post to the Pictures Post.

Thank you for your recipe too.

I look forward to your new pictures.

A couple of things to consider.

lynnala found that CV shampoo bars darkened her hair - the castor oil in them.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=128710&postcount=1047

and
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=128756&postcount=1050

And if you mix the honey into the distilled water first and then add the cinnamon - the solution should be smoother.

I experimented with that - with plain water - and it works.

ktani

June 21st, 2008, 05:54 PM

Jan in ID

I added you to the Pictures Post and started a new division - you are the only one in it right now.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=133707&postcount=1095

I also made note of the 4 to 1 dilution error.

Jan in ID

June 21st, 2008, 06:03 PM

Thanks ktani!

ktani

June 21st, 2008, 06:06 PM

Jan in ID

Thank you!

Alley Cat

June 21st, 2008, 06:10 PM

Jan in ID your before and after pictures are amazing well done. :cheese:

ktani

June 21st, 2008, 06:19 PM

Jan in ID

My 2 standard questions please.

1. How is the condition of your hair post honey lightening?

2. What brand and or type of honey did you use?

Jan in ID

June 21st, 2008, 06:28 PM

My hair prior to the treatment was in good condition, not great, but not bad either.
I think it feels better now, much softer.

I am currently using some local raw honey I bought at my local health food store. I was using some raw honey I purchased at Wal-Mart. I can't remember the name of it, but I will look the next time I go there.

Robinlyn

June 21st, 2008, 06:29 PM

Thank you so much for all this info! I'm doing a treatment tonight with Wildflower Honey. It is a darker honey. I will take pics.

Jan in ID

June 21st, 2008, 06:29 PM

Jan in ID your before and after pictures are amazing well done. :cheese:

Thank you!

ktani

June 21st, 2008, 06:43 PM

Jan in ID

Thank you for the fast reply.

I am glad that the condition of your hair is so good - that is consistent with other reports - no one has reported any hair damage from honey lightening - just dry hair and ends occasionally.

I want to add your type of honey to the Successful Honeys list when you can find out what it is.

I mentioned the CV shampoo bars darkening lynnala's hair so that you could be aware of the possibility.

You may get even better results without them.

I know many here love the bars and I have nothing against them - I just note things as they come up.

It took a bit of investigating to figure out what was causing the darkening for lynnala - it was cumulative.

ktani

June 21st, 2008, 06:46 PM

Thank you so much for all this info! I'm doing a treatment tonight with Wildflower Honey. It is a darker honey. I will take pics.

Robinlyn

You are most welcome.

Wildflower honey is on the Successful Honeys List - good luck!

I look forward to your results.

ktani

June 21st, 2008, 07:57 PM

Notes on castor oil and darkening hair

Castor oil darkening hair - research from this thread
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=83462&postcount=431 (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=83462&postcount=431)

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=83508&postcount=435 (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=83508&postcount=435)

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=84377&postcount=440 (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=84377&postcount=440)

lynnala on CV shampoo bars darkening her hair
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=128710&postcount=1047

and
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=128756&postcount=1050

From Ida’s website - the amount of castor oil in shampoo bars vs soap bars
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=84607&postcount=441 (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=84607&postcount=441)

flapjack on castor oil darkening hair - links from another thread
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=124839&postcount=19 (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=124839&postcount=19)

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=125850&postcount=21 (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=125850&postcount=21)

ktani

June 21st, 2008, 09:16 PM

Pictures Post

Here are links to some pictures of Honey thread, honey lightening results.

The 4 parts water to 1 part honey - as it has been used up to and including now has been off by the amount of water - the 4 to 1 should be measured by weight.

It can be converted to ml or tablespoons or cups. For every 1/4 cup of honey - you need 340 ml or 16 tablespoons or 1 1/2 cups water.

1 cup of honey = 339-340 grams or 12 oz. 1 cup of water = 237 grams or 8 oz. 1 gram = 1 ml.

On blonde hair

firbird - 3 sets of pictures, 2 sets linked - on previously dyed hair and virgin regrowth before using the 4 to 1 dilution and after with cinnamon and EVOO
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=75235&postcount=393

on a cassia treatment that had darkened her hair - 4 to 1 dilution - with cinnamon and EVOO, no conditioner.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=94944&postcount=489

brok3nwings - on brassy hair from and old semi and acv red/gold tones - 4 to 1 dilution and cinnamon
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=98244&postcount=503

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=99995&postcount=516

Minx - from an older Honey thread - virgin hair with the old dilution recipe
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=29214&postcount=72

morgwn - after using firebird's new honey lightening recipe with cassia, cinnamon and EVOO - the 4 to 1 dilution - no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134211&postcount=1097

firebird's recipe with cassia and results - again
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=94944&postcount=489

On medium shades of hair

Jan in Id - on virgin hair - with the 4 to 1 dilution using distilled water - after 2 treatments - with cinnamon and booster oils - no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=160564&postcount=1299

On dark hair

Maluhia and Viviane - from an older Honey thread with the old dilution recipes
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=18809&postcount=38

mellie - from an older Honey thread - on henndigoed hair - the 4 to 1 dilution - no peroxide boosters and no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=57442&postcount=224

mellie - latest pictures on multiple layers of Rainbow Dark Brown Henna - the 4 to 1 dilution - no lemon, no peroxide boosters and no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=109246&postcount=572

nayver - on naturally black hair with faded hi-lights - the 4 to 1 dilution - no lemon, no peroxide boosters and no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=105685&postcount=534

bizarrogirl - on henndigoed hair and then on multiple henna layers with the 4 to 1 dilution
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=109432&postcount=586

bizarrogirl - picture details
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bizarrogirl/sets/72157594199905645/detail/

wintersun99 - finally getting results - on henndigoed hair with the 4 to1 dilution
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=109189&postcount=569

GlennaGirl - on henndigoed hair - the 4 to 1 dilution with cinnamon
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=111943&postcount=653

GlennaGirl - picture details
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=111987&postcount=656

GlennaGirl - recipe details
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=111762&postcount=643

GlennaGirl - on her colour change with the 4 to 1 dilution
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=112224&postcount=676

GlennaGirl - latest signature picture - henna following - the 4 to 1 dilution - 2 more treatments - 1 with cinnamon, 1 with cardamom - 1 with no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=133292&postcount=6

DolphinPrincess - finally getting results - on henndigoed hair with the 4 to 1 dilution - with cardamom, no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=120769&postcount=916

kimki - on hennaed hair - with the 4 to 1 dilution after 2 treatments, 1 with cinnamon - no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=122653&postcount=958

The updated Pictures Post

mommy2one05

June 21st, 2008, 09:53 PM

OK, here are a couple of pictures...

This is my hair on 04/20/08, when I first decided to let my hair grow out.
This is my natural virgin hair.

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/JanInId/hairo042008.jpg

This one is from today, 06/21/08, after 2 honey treatments.

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/JanInId/hair062108.jpg

My hair definately appers to be lighter.
And wow, I can really see a difference in growth!
This is the first comparison pic I have taken!

I have another treatment (my 3rd) on my hair as I type this.
My recipe is:

1 cup distilled water
1/4 cup raw honey
1 tbs evoo
1 tbs coconut oil
2 tbs cinnamon powder (I will probably cut this back to 1 tbs because it clumps so bad)

I bought a squirt bottle yesterday and it works well. My DH puts it in my hair for me.
I leave it on for a couple of hours, sometimes more.

I have to lather and rinse several times (I use CV shampoo bars), and my hair is still greasy looking when it drys. I just leave it and wash again like normal the next day and it is fine. My hair is soft and shiny!
I have been doing this once a week for the last 3 weeks.

I will try to post a pic tomorrow of the results of todays treatment.

Wow! You got some really great lightening results. When you say your dh uses the mister on your hair....do you mist it and leave it down or you soak it and put it up and wrap it? What do the oils do to the mix? Is cinnamon powder and cinnamon extract (like you cook with) the same or similar?

ktani

June 21st, 2008, 10:08 PM

Ground cinnamon has a high peroxide value for a spice (not as high as that of ground cardamom) and has been reported in this thread to work very well with honey for lightening on all hair types - virgin, colour-treated, hennaed and henndigoed. It is an irritant though. That comes from its oil content - and cinnamic aldehyde not hydrogen peroxide.

The peroxide value of cinnamon and other spices.
http://books.google.ca/books?id=KZa8aPxR_-wC&pg=PA322&lpg=PA322&dq=cinnamon+pov&source=web&ots=pjIeAfr5-Z&sig=OMZG-eBpqhAP5xevko2Ot2tkeW4&hl=en

Cinnamon oil is a powerful irritant - has no peroxide value that I know of and I do not recommend using it in pure form.

"Opinion concerning a review on the safety of perfumery materials
Restriction and condition
Cassia oil Cinnamon bark oil
prime allergen is Cinnamic aldehyde .... concentration of Cinnamic aldehyde in .... finished cosmetic product should not exceed 0.1%."
http://ec.europa.eu/health/ph_risk/committees/sccp/documents/out150_en.pdf

"Science Findings
Cinnamaldehyde (cinnamic aldehyde) is .... main component in cassia oil as well as cinnamon bark oil .... Cinnamon oil .... contains 70% to 90% cinnamaldehyde ...."
http://www.epa.gov/opp00001/biopesticides/ingredients/factsheets/factsheet_040506.htm

"Cinnamon contact dermatitis .... considered as irritant contact dermatitis .... allergic reaction would only occur during prolonged exposure to the irritant."
http://www.statssheet.com/articles/article74165.html

The oils mentioned in the recipe (coconut and evoo) do have peroxide values - they boost the peroxide level of the honey lightening recipe and are known hair conditioning oils as well. Extra virgin olive oil has the highest peroxide level of most oils.

The peroxide levels of the honey lightening boosters though are not as high as the peroxide levels of most honeys, and have not been reported to lighten hair much on their own.

Ground cinnamon has been reported to lighten hair, in another thread, when used continuously, over a long period of time.

Cinnamon extact is very different to ground cinnamon - I do not recommend cinnamon extract. It is a flavouring - prepared with alcohol and water.

"Pure Cinnamon Extract Ingredients: oil of cinnamon, alcohol, and water."
http://www.cooksvanilla.com/product_44_Pure_Cinnamon_Extract.html

".... Pure Cinnamon Extract .... propylene glycol, alcohol, water and extractives of cinnamon. Like most of our extracts .... flavors ...."
http://www.silvercloudestates.com/viewproduct.aspx?id=191

Cinnamon extract ingredients
"PROPYLENE GLYCOL, ALCOHOL(40%), WATER, AND EXTRACTIVES OF CINNAMON."
http://www.mccormick.com/productdetail.cfm?id=11738 (http://www.mccormick.com/productdetail.cfm?id=11738)

".... Cinnamon extract .... flavoring extract prepared from oil of cinnamon .... contains not less than two percent by volume of oil of cinnamon."
http://www.legis.state.ia.us/IACODE/1999SUPPLEMENT/190/1.html

Alley Cat

June 21st, 2008, 11:39 PM

ktani

June 22nd, 2008, 12:06 AM

Alley Cat

The minimum amount of honey to use is 10 grams.

"The overview of the method.

.... honey (preferably 10 grams) .... mix with 4 times that amount of water .... generate hydrogen-peroxide ...."
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/H2O2.html

According to this - that is 1/2 tablespoon- you would need 40 ml or 40 grams of water. Scroll down to the 1st conversion table.
http://www.traditionaloven.com/conversions_of_measures/honey_measurements.html

You can make the recipe whatever size you need - as long as you use the right amount of water.

And based on Jan in ID's results - distilled water is proving itself.

Alley Cat

June 22nd, 2008, 12:30 AM

ktani

June 22nd, 2008, 06:49 AM

Alley Cat

The honey lightening recipes have always been sizable - many though like to use certain quantities.

The only minimum I recommend is the 10 grams or 1/2 tablespoon of honey.

Go from there with the conversion tables - I found the calculator a pain - and you should be fine.

With the cost of Jarrah honey for example and distilled water - excellent that you are using it by the way - wasting product is not good IMO.

You determine for yourself how much you need to use and make the recipe accordingly.

Jan in ID

June 22nd, 2008, 09:22 AM

Wow! You got some really great lightening results. When you say your dh uses the mister on your hair....do you mist it and leave it down or you soak it and put it up and wrap it? What do the oils do to the mix? Is cinnamon powder and cinnamon extract (like you cook with) the same or similar?

Thanks!
I don't use a mister, I just use a squirt bottle (it looks like a ketchup/mustard bottle) I picked up at Wal-Mart in the kitchen section.
My DH just helps me out by applying the mixture to my hair and mixing it around while I have my head bent over the bathtub. It saves a lot of mess and makes sure I get all of my hair saturated. (gotta love the guy!).

I then pile my hair on top of my head and put on a plastic cap and then cover that with a towel to help catch the drips.
I leave it on for 2 hours and then wash, rinse, wash, rinse and so on.

I think ktani has answered your other questions. This thread is where I got the recipe I use.

Jan in ID

June 22nd, 2008, 09:34 AM

With the new measuring requirement you would have a lot more liquid I might try the 1/8 of a cup next time which would mean needing 170g of water and see if that is enough to cover my hair, I think it would be. I had heaps of mixture left last time which I re added half way through but it seemed to just drip away. Is 1/8 of honey enough or is it better with the 1/4 a cup and just not bother about the waste ? What do you think?:ponder:

My batch makes too much also.
I thought I had read that I needed to use a minimum of 1/4 of honey, but I must have been mistaken.
I will cut my recipe in half next week.
I have some honey I am wanting to try, but it's twice the price of my regular honey.
It's called Really Raw Honey and it tastes great!
http://www.reallyrawhoney.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=SFNT&Store_Code=RRH

It tastes so good that I didn't want to waste it on my hair! Using 1/4 cup at a time, it would go pretty fast!
I may try this next week just to see if it makes any difference.

Jan in ID

June 22nd, 2008, 09:45 AM

This is a picture of the type of bottle I use, but mine is clear.
Once I have perfected my recipe, I am going to mark the bottle with the measurments I use. That way I can just pour my ingredients directly into the bottle instead of measuring each item everytime.

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/JanInId/bottle.jpg

ktani

June 22nd, 2008, 10:24 AM

Jan in ID

Thank you for the added details and pictures of the type of bottles, the same except for the colour, to your application bottle.

You obviously did every thing right in your recipe and method - including covering your hair with plastic - which I am not sure is needed if the recipe sat for 1 hour in advance - to develop the honey's full proxide value - but it is handy for the drips.

The only things I recommend are - as I said - mixing the cinnamon into the distilled water after you have added the honey - to make a smoother solution.

And increasing the amount of water to honey by weight - you can convert that to ml - for the correct 4 parts water to 1 part honey dilution.

I think that will yield even better results.

You can also patch test and try ground cardamom - not the seed. Ground cardamom has been reported here to work beautifully, to help lighten hair with honey, and it has also been reported to wash out of the hair much easier than cinnamon.

I recommend McCormick ground cardamom - DolphinPrincess used it - and had no irritation - cinnamon did not work for her and did cause irritation. GlennaGirl used a different ground cardamom and did have irritation, while ground cinnamon was no problem for her. Patch testing is very much recommended though.
http://www.mccormick.com/recipelist.cfm?SearchMethod=explicit&SearchText=cardamom&SearchGroup=1&SearchTextDisplay=&searchType=site&pageno=2&display=site

DolphinPrincess results - you do not have to use chamomile tea - if you do - prepare it with distilled water and cool it to room temperature before adding the honey and cardamom.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=120769&postcount=916

Some of the recipes used here have used 1/4 cup of honey. I think that is where the confusion came from with that amount.

I had mistakenly said that 10 grams of honey = 1/8th cup - as the recommended minimum amount of honey to be used.

10 grams of honey is still the recommended minimum but it is actually equal to 1/2 tablespoon.

"Honey volume vs. weight conversions
tablespoon - 0.06 - 21g"
http://www.traditionaloven.com/conversions_of_measures/honey_measurements.html

IMO, 2 hours is not necessary for a treatment with the 4 to 1 dilution but it is not a problem.

ktani

June 22nd, 2008, 10:47 AM

Jan in ID

As to the honey - by all means experiment - but the honey that you have been using is excellent IMO.

I think that the really expensive honeys are best kept for either eating or like UMF manuka honey - for medicinal use.

Both raw and pasteurized honeys have been reported in all Honey threads to work equally well - the cheap versions of both too.

The exception to expense and it will be the shipping costs - not the honey - is Jarrah honey.

With its known high peroxide value - I highly recommend trying it as a honey option.

ktani

June 22nd, 2008, 11:04 AM

Jarrah honey information and suppliers.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=157257&postcount=1266

It is #10 here
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096

Jan in ID

June 22nd, 2008, 12:16 PM

Thanks for the info on castor oil.
I think I will stick with my CV bars though. They do great thing for my hair.

ktani

June 22nd, 2008, 12:22 PM

Jan in ID

Your hair is beautiful and you got great honey lightening results IMO.

I only wanted you to be aware that CV bars have been reported to darken hair - probably because of the castor oil - and castor oil has been reported to darken hair too.

ktani

June 22nd, 2008, 01:36 PM

This is why I recommend that the distilled water and herbal tea be used at room temperature only before adding the honey and peroxide boosters.

".... honey (preferably 10 grams) mix with 4 times that amount of water at 20°C (68°F), glucose-oxidase .... generate hydrogen-peroxide ...."
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/H2O2.html

Now - IMO - you do not have to check the room temperature - but - if you keep a treatment in the fridge - let it warm up to room temperature - before using it unless you have already let it sit for 1 hour at room temperature.

This is the hour it needs to produce the maximum honey peroxide value.
"Let stand .... one hour at room temperature (20°C)(70°F)"
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/H2O2.html

I highly recommend reading this link - even though it has lots of typos and badly phrased English - just like my posts before I edit, lol.

squiggyflop

June 22nd, 2008, 03:02 PM

ok so ive got a honey lightening treatment on my head.. its so drippy its seeping out of the saran wrap and dripping onto me every 5 seconds.. i feel all gross and sticky.. i hope i can see some results..

so how many treatments until henna users see results?

ktani

June 22nd, 2008, 04:15 PM

Alley Cat

June 22nd, 2008, 07:30 PM

Alley Cat

June 22nd, 2008, 07:34 PM

My batch makes too much also.
I thought I had read that I needed to use a minimum of 1/4 of honey, but I must have been mistaken.
I will cut my recipe in half next week.
I have some honey I am wanting to try, but it's twice the price of my regular honey.
It's called Really Raw Honey and it tastes great!
http://www.reallyrawhoney.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=SFNT&Store_Code=RRH

It tastes so good that I didn't want to waste it on my hair! Using 1/4 cup at a time, it would go pretty fast!
I may try this next week just to see if it makes any difference.

Yes it makes a lot and your hair is a lot shorter than mine so you would have had a lot left. I also use a bottle like you do it's easier. :)

ktani

June 22nd, 2008, 07:39 PM

Alley Cat

You are most welcome.

ktani

June 22nd, 2008, 08:43 PM

Jarrah honey is known to have a very high peroxide value.

“WA scientists claim jarrah honey benefit
Manuka honey .... New Zealand honey .... peroxide levels of about 18 per cent on average .... But we’re finding peroxide levels 54 per cent higher, with an average of about 28 per cent .... a very big increase ...."
http://www.beelinehoney.com.au/Jarrah.pdf

see "Comparing Different Types of Honey" - date 2008
"found Jarrah honey .... contains higher amounts of glucose oxidase .... significantly more effective against Candida spp. in vitro ...."
http://ecam.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/nem175

Glucose oxidase is the enzyme in honey that produces hydrogen peroxide.

Jarrah honey suppliers I found and contacted - prices and shipping costs vary as will stock amounts. There are no doubt more suppliers out there - this to start you off. As more are reported, I will add them to this list.

International shipping will be noted with an asterisk - *

*1. Their price list and they report Jarrah honey in stock. They do ship internationally.
Prices
http://www.beesneez.com.au/price-list.html (http://www.beesneez.com.au/price-list.html)
Contact page
http://www.beesneez.com.au/contact.html (http://www.beesneez.com.au/contact.html)

*2. Yes to Jarrah honey in stock and they ship internationally. This one seems to be fast on replies to inquiries.
Contact page
http://www.beehappy.com.au/aboutus.htm (http://www.beehappy.com.au/aboutus.htm)
Order page with prices
http://www.beehappy.com.au/orderform.htm (http://www.beehappy.com.au/orderform.htm)

I contacted supplier #2 a few days ago to ask about shipping and extremes of temperature.

I got 2 replies tonight.

".... no the honey will not heat up to a risk point while being shipped and how much and what you order will determine the packaging,...."

" no I shouldn't think the honey would come into any extreme heat while in transit, most airports and planes are all air-conditioned these days ...."

Excellent timing and customer service IMO. Bravo!

squiggyflop

June 22nd, 2008, 08:52 PM

squiggyflop

Thank you for posting.

What is your recipe please?

You can get results in 1 treatment - it very much depends on you (method), your recipe and the honey itself in some cases.

I cannot predict results.

I wish you luck and look forward to reading the details.
ok so i used the old conditioner and honey recipe.. i didnt realize there were better ones.. im going to try the 4 to 1 water and honey one some time this week.. but im going to need a shower cap.. so im going to have to look around for some change..
i dont have money for distilled water.. my dad would be mad if i told him i wanted money to buy water..
once i see results im going to post pictures (hopefully the card reader will be working again soon)

ktani

June 22nd, 2008, 09:04 PM

squiggyflop

No worries - it is just that the 4 to 1 dilution has been reported to work both faster and much better than the old recipes.

Please read #1 of the link I sent you - and hang onto it.

I update all recommendation posts - so they are all current.

There has been a correction to the 4 to 1 dilution - the water is done by weight.

Please read #15 too.

Tap water is ok - distilled water is better.

I would not continue to use conditioner - it can be problematic and is no longer recommended.

And please let me know how it goes.

ktani

June 23rd, 2008, 06:48 AM

To simplify the correct 4 parts water to 1 part honey dilution - you can just use ml

1 ml = 1 gram

So for the recommended minimum amount of honey, 10 grams or ml, you would need 40 ml of water.

50 ml of honey would need 200 ml of water etc.

or tablespoons

1/8th cup of honey = 2 tablespoons, so you would need 8 tablespoons of water.

1/4 cup of honey = 4 tablespoons - you would need 16 tablespoons of water.

Scroll down past the calculator in this link to the conversion tables - IMO - they are much easier to work with.
http://www.traditionaloven.com/conversions_of_measures/honey_measurements.html

soleluna

June 23rd, 2008, 09:32 AM

ktani

June 23rd, 2008, 09:39 AM

Ok, I'm needing some help: this is a monster thread and I can't seem to find what I'm looking for. I have brown hair with reddish highlights, which become more obvious in the sun and when I henna. I am looking for a way to make my hair lighter, in the sense of 'more red'. Would honey or cinnamon or rooibos or whatever work for this? I'm thinking about treatments, leave ins, or a spray to use when in the sun. Something natural, though, just to accentuate my natural color. thanks

soleluna

As most darker hair lightens, red is one of the stages it goes through naturally.

With henna - the hair is fiery orange/red, until multiple layers can turn it darker, to more of a burgundy shade.

When you lighten henna it can return to the more red shade.

Have a look at the recommendations here on honey lightening.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096

Then look at the pictures of honey lightening on hennaed hair here.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=133707&postcount=1095

Sunlight is not recommended with honey lightening - heat (except body heat) can negatively affect hydrogen peroxide.

This is from the recommendations link.

8."No external heat should be used with honey lightening - no blow dryers, sunlight. None of the recipe ingredients except herbal tea should be heated at any time. Heat (except body heat) can destroy hydrogen peroxide by decomposing it to water and oxygen. It depends on the degree of heat and the amount of time that it is applied. Pasteurization does not destroy the enzyme in honey that produces peroxide.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=119678&postcount=883"

soleluna

June 23rd, 2008, 10:15 AM

Thanks, I'll have a look at the links now! what about cinnamon?

ktani

June 23rd, 2008, 10:19 AM

soleluna

When you read the links and look at the pictures you will see that ground cinnamon is 1 of 2 recommended spice boosters that can be used in the recipes.

It adds extra peroxide to a honey lightening recipe, but contrary to what is on the net, it has not been reported to add colour of its own to the hair.

soleluna

June 23rd, 2008, 10:35 AM

ktani

June 23rd, 2008, 10:40 AM

thanks. Am trying now. I'm boiling distilled water with rooibos and cinnamon then I'll let it cool and add the honey(1 cup water, 1/5 cup of honey), slather on and leave for 1 hour under some wrap or cap. Is that ok?

soleluna

You should not add heat to any peroxide containig ingredients for honey lightening.

Rooibos tea has been reported to add a light brownish colour to hair - not red.

By boiling the cinnamon - you are destroying the peroxide in it.

Any tea used for honey lightening should be cooled to room temperature first before adding any other ingredients.

soleluna

June 23rd, 2008, 10:42 AM

soleluna

You should not add heat to any peroxide containig ingredients for honey lightening.

Rooibos tea has been reported to add a light brownish colour to hair - not red.

By boiling the cinnamon - you are destroying the peroxide in it.

Ant tea used for honey lightening should be cooled to room temperature first before adding any other ingredients.

oh my!! I got it wrong then!! thanks!! I'll use the rooibos etc for a rinse, and just put honey and water then. off to change the thing!! thanks!!!

ktani

June 23rd, 2008, 10:45 AM

soleluna

Use this post to guide you through the correct amount of water to use.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=162313&postcount=1336

squiggyflop

June 23rd, 2008, 03:32 PM

i found a dollar and bought a 6 pack of shower caps.. i mixed honey and water using the 4 parts water one part honey.. and i added some cinnamon..

i was sitting in the living room with my dog and he comes up behind me and starts licking my shoulder (my hair is dripping quite a bit) i couldnt figure out why he was being so annoying until i put my hands in my mouth.. wow this stuff tastes good.. i think i may even want to bake some cookies to taste like this..

now i cant stop tasting it.. every time i drip i catch it on my fingers and suck it off.. mmmm honey and cinnamon flavored water..

i hope i get some results this time and i hope i can take a picture while its still light out to show all of you.. and i really hope i can get the pics onto the computor.. my card reader is sort of tempermental..

mmm annother drip of tasty honey treatment..

ill report back later..

ktani

June 23rd, 2008, 03:46 PM

ktani

June 23rd, 2008, 05:11 PM

A special thank you to soleluna.

She and I pmed today while she had the honey lightening treatment on her hair.

When I have the time, as I did today, I am happy to to help out via pm if it is preferred.

But the thank you is for information provided to me.

Now I know why some of you boiled ground cinnamon - which is not recommended for honey lightening.

That is a method - for making tea when using henna!

I have, and am still learning as much from all of you who post here - as you do from my research.

Alley Cat

June 23rd, 2008, 06:07 PM

To simplify the correct 4 parts water to 1 part honey dilution - you can just use ml

1 ml = 1 gram

So for the recommended the minimum amount of honey, 10 grams or ml, you would need 40 ml of water.

50 ml of honey would need 200 ml of water etc.

or tablespoons

1/8th cup of honey = 2 tablespoons, so you would need 8 tablespoons of water.

1/4 cup of honey = 4 tablespoons - you would need 16 tablespoons of water.

Scroll down past the calculator in this link to the conversion tables - IMO - they are much easier to work with.
http://www.traditionaloven.com/conversions_of_measures/honey_measurements.html

Hmm is our measuring system different than yours as 1/8 of a cup is 30ml and 1 tablespoon is 20ml here so 1/8 of a cup is actually 1 and 1/2 tablespoons here? :shrug:
I was looking at some of my measuring containers just now.:confused:
1/4 of a cup is 60ml which is only 3 tablespoons
1 cup is 250ml . Which of course 1/4 of a cup times 4 doesn't add up to 250 but that's what my measuring containers are like. :eek:
These are the ones I have been using to measure with . :)

ktani

June 23rd, 2008, 06:15 PM

Hmm is our measuring system different than yours as 1/8 of a cup is 30ml and 1 tablespoon is 20ml here so 1/8 of a cup is actually 1 and 1/2 tablespoons here? :shrug:
I was looking at some of my measuring containers just now.:confused:
1/4 of a cup is 60ml which is only 3 tablespoons
1 cup is 250ml . Which of course 1/4 of a cup times 4 doesn't add up to 250 but that's what my measuring containers are like. :eek:
These are the ones I have been using to measure with . :)

Alley Cat

They are is U.S. Stats.

Look at this page here.
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/sweets/5568/2

USDA
http://www.nutritiondata.com/help/about

You can still use the conversions.

Your measuring cups have ml - 1 gram = 1 ml.

So 30 ml of honey would need 120 ml of water.

Alley Cat

June 23rd, 2008, 06:23 PM

Alley Cat

They are is U.S. Stats.

Look at this page here.
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/sweets/5568/2

USDA
http://www.nutritiondata.com/help/about

You can still use the conversions.
Ok thank you . :)

So if I want to do this in grams which is easier for me to measure the most accurate the honey for 1/8 of a cup is 42.5 grams and what was the water again sorry?:o
Or is it just 42.5 x 4 = 170g? .
I want to make sure I do this right. :)

ktani

June 23rd, 2008, 06:28 PM

Ok thank you . :)

So if I want to do this in grams which is easier for me to measure the most accurate the honey for 1/8 of a cup is 42.5 grams and what was the water again sorry?:o
Or is it just 42.5 x 4 = 170g? .
I want to make sure I do this right. :)

Alley Cat

You can do it either way.

You can size your own recipe - just use 10 grams or ml of honey minimum.

Ok - look at it this way.

1 gram = 1 ml.

10 grams or ml of honey need 40 grams or ml of water for the 4 to 1 correctly.

20 grams or ml of honey need 80 grams or ml of water.

30 grams or ml of honey need 120 grams or ml of water.

Alley Cat

June 23rd, 2008, 06:32 PM

Alley Cat

You can do it either way.

You can size your own recipe - just use 10 grams or ml of honey minimum.

Ok - look at it this way.

1 gram = 1 ml.

10 grams or ml of honey need 40 grams or ml of water for the 4 to 1 correctly.

20 grams or ml of honey need 80 grams or ml of water.

30 grams or ml of honey need 120 grams or ml of water.
Ok got it thanks. :)
I just need to work out how much to use that is enough with out having a huge wastage. Will do. I am thinking of a treatment later today. :)

ktani

June 23rd, 2008, 06:38 PM

Alley Cat

This link is Dutch.

"Weigh 10 g honey .... mix with 40 g (40 ml) distilled water."
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/H2O2.html

Alley Cat

June 23rd, 2008, 06:43 PM

Jarrah honey is known to have a very high peroxide value.

“WA scientists claim jarrah honey benefit
Manuka honey .... New Zealand honey .... peroxide levels of about 18 per cent on average .... But we’re finding peroxide levels 54 per cent higher, with an average of about 28 per cent .... a very big increase ...."
http://www.beelinehoney.com.au/Jarrah.pdf

see "Comparing Different Types of Honey" - date 2008
"found Jarrah honey .... contains higher amounts of glucose oxidase .... significantly more effective against Candida spp. in vitro ...."
http://ecam.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/nem175

Glucose oxidase is the enzyme in honey that produces hydrogen peroxide.

Jarrah honey suppliers I found and contacted - prices and shipping costs vary as will stock amounts. There are no doubt more suppliers out there - this to start you off. As more are reported, I will add them to this list.

International shipping will be noted with an asterisk - *

*1. Their price list and they report Jarrah honey in stock. They do ship internationally.
Prices
http://www.beesneez.com.au/price-list.html (http://www.beesneez.com.au/price-list.html)
Contact page
http://www.beesneez.com.au/contact.html (http://www.beesneez.com.au/contact.html)

*2. Yes to Jarrah honey in stock and they ship internationally. This one seems to be fast on replies to inquiries.
Contact page
http://www.beehappy.com.au/aboutus.htm (http://www.beehappy.com.au/aboutus.htm)
Order page with prices
http://www.beehappy.com.au/orderform.htm (http://www.beehappy.com.au/orderform.htm)

Just a note to let anyone interested that I have ordered from the second supplier beehappy . I will advice when I get my product and what I think of the product. It did take a little while to get my order finalized but it's done now so I will see how long the goods take to arrive. I expect a good week coming all the way from WA to Tasmania. :) I have had products take longer to come domestic than to come from USA sometimes, crazy but true. :rolleyes:
My mother once sent 2 presents on the same day to my 2 children one came in 4 days the other in 10 . :rolleyes:

Alley Cat

June 23rd, 2008, 06:45 PM

Alley Cat

This link is Dutch.

"Weigh 10 g honey .... mix with 40 g (40 ml) distilled water"
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/H2O2.html
Thanks I missed this post. :)

ktani

June 23rd, 2008, 06:50 PM

Just a note to let anyone interested that I have ordered from the second supplier beehappy . I will advice when I get my product and what I think of the product. It did take a little while to get my order finalized but it's done now so I will see how long the goods take to arrive. I expect a good week coming all the way from WA to Tasmania. :) I have had products take longer to come domestic than to come from USA sometimes, crazy but true. :rolleyes:
My mother once sent 2 presents on the same day to my 2 children one came in 4 days the other in 10 . :rolleyes:

Alley Cat

It is like that here in Canada too.

I have received mail from the U.S. in 3 days.

I have received packages from Britain in 7 working days.

I sent my mom - who does not live far from me a card - that took 10 days for her to receive it.

I look forward to reading about the shipping and the honey!

It is good that people report on things like customer service and response times with vendors - with respect though.

That can be a problem otherwise - I am not referring to you - it is and old issue on LHC - but one to be aware of - in any case.

Alley Cat

June 23rd, 2008, 07:10 PM

Alley Cat

It is like that here in Canada too.

I have received mail from the U.S. in 3 days.

I have received packages from Britain in 7 working days.

I sent my mom - who does not live far from me a card - that took 10 days for her to receive it.

I look forward to reading about the shipping and the honey!

It is good that people report on things like customer service and response times with vendors - with respect though.

That can be a problem otherwise - I am not referring to you - it is and old issue on LHC - but one to be aware of - in any case.

Yes what you said about customer service and respect etc is important. :)

About the postage from USA and domestic, I have never been able to understand it , some things can come quicker but if you expect they will take longer then you aren't disappointed . :shrug:

ktani

June 23rd, 2008, 07:16 PM

ktani

June 23rd, 2008, 07:28 PM

Jarrah honey is known to have a very high peroxide value.

“WA scientists claim jarrah honey benefit
Manuka honey .... New Zealand honey .... peroxide levels of about 18 per cent on average .... But we’re finding peroxide levels 54 per cent higher, with an average of about 28 per cent .... a very big increase ...."
http://www.beelinehoney.com.au/Jarrah.pdf

see "Comparing Different Types of Honey" - date 2008
"found Jarrah honey .... contains higher amounts of glucose oxidase .... significantly more effective against Candida spp. in vitro ...."
http://ecam.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/nem175

Glucose oxidase is the enzyme in honey that produces hydrogen peroxide.

Jarrah honey suppliers I found and contacted - prices and shipping costs vary as will stock amounts. There are no doubt more suppliers out there - this to start you off. As more are reported, I will add them to this list.

International shipping will be noted with an asterisk - *

*1. Their price list and they report Jarrah honey in stock. They do ship internationally.
Prices
http://www.beesneez.com.au/price-list.html (http://www.beesneez.com.au/price-list.html)
Contact page
http://www.beesneez.com.au/contact.html (http://www.beesneez.com.au/contact.html)

*2. Yes to Jarrah honey in stock and they ship internationally. This one seems to be fast on replies to inquiries.
Contact page
http://www.beehappy.com.au/aboutus.htm (http://www.beehappy.com.au/aboutus.htm)
Order page with prices
http://www.beehappy.com.au/orderform.htm (http://www.beehappy.com.au/orderform.htm)

Both of these vendors responded to inquiries about stock and international shipping.

I removed 1 vendor from the list when they replied that they had no stock.

I emailed another vendor who has not replied yet.

This list only comprises vendors who have stock at the time of the inquiry.

The vendors who do not respond to inquiries will not be named.

There are any number of legitimate reasons why that may happen.

Alley Cat

June 23rd, 2008, 07:31 PM

Alley Cat

The packages from Britain - my shampoo.

I always go by the cheapest shipping - they say up to 30 days.

I have never received a package in over 7 working days - and I have ordered from 2 different vendors - all together over 1/2 a dozen times.
I have had a package from USA that took over 3 weeks I believe. :shrug:
But I got it eventually. :) Waiting is hard though. :rolleyes:

ktani

June 23rd, 2008, 07:40 PM

Alley Cat

It can be.

But business is very competitive and shipping methods have very much improved IMO.

Alley Cat

June 24th, 2008, 12:02 AM

Alley Cat

It can be.

But business is very competitive and shipping methods have very much improved IMO.

Yes . :)

I have put another mixture in I used 40g of honey to 160g of distilled water that was quite sufficient to cover my waist length hair, and I didn't have any wastage. I will stick to that amount from now on.
It's sitting on my head now. :D

ktani

June 24th, 2008, 06:02 AM

Alley Cat

Perfect - good luck!

Alley Cat

June 24th, 2008, 06:42 AM

Alley Cat

Perfect - good luck!
Thank you . It's washed off now and dried but as it's night time here and bed time I will know better how it looks in the morning. I am always glad to have washed out the mixture though. :)

ktani

June 24th, 2008, 06:45 AM

Alley Cat

Depending on the honey, you may just need a weak vinegar rinse or rinsing instead of washing it out.

Different honeys have different residue levels.

ktani

June 24th, 2008, 06:55 AM

Another thing to consider - by using distilled water - there will be no mineral residue from the water itself.

A weak vinegar rinse that has been reported to work well with honey lightening is 1 tsp white vinegar to 24 oz of water (use distilled water).

Apply after rinsing out the treatment and leave the vinegar rinse on the hair 30-60 seconds before rinsing it out.

ktani

June 24th, 2008, 07:22 AM

***** I have been posting the recommendations links frequently throughout the thread in order for those new to the thread to be up to date.*****

They are all the same and are all updated at one time.

***** This is the one that is on page 1 of this thread.*****
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096

If you save one of these links - you will always be current with what is happening in the Honey thread.

There is a current pictures link included in the link.

ktani

June 24th, 2008, 07:27 AM

I am now going to post the recommendations link on every page, starting today.

I have been updating all versions of the links at once - there are 6 of them.

From today, I will only be updating one - but it will be on every page of this thread.

squiggyflop

June 24th, 2008, 08:58 AM

ok sorry about the late response.. my computor monitor died last night.. luckily we had an extra one brand new just sitting still in its box.. however dad didnt install it until morning.. i just woke up..

so im an idiot and i forgot to take pictures before the honey treatmentstreatments.. but just beleive me when i say its a bit lighter.. especially by the roots.. however i still have some henna thats too dark so maybe ill do annother treatment.. maybe not today because im having a good hair day and i dont want to ruin it..
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/kidmol/th_lengthafter2honeytreatmentsjune2008.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/kidmol/lengthafter2honeytreatmentsjune2008.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/kidmol/th_rootsafter2honeytreatmentsjune2008.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/kidmol/rootsafter2honeytreatmentsjune2008.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/kidmol/th_topafter2honeytreatmentsjune2008.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/kidmol/topafter2honeytreatmentsjune2008.jpg)
in the top pic you can see that there is still some dark hair that i need to deal with.. but that pic shows well how much lighter the roots got.. the darker hair is a bit lighter.. i wish it was sunny out this morning so you all could really see..

second and third pictures are of my lightened roots.. *sigh* i havent done henna since april and i only have like an inch of roots.. my hair usually grows wicked fast in the summer i dont understand it..

ktani

June 24th, 2008, 09:21 AM