I recently tried my Mellie's Mix again because my hair was getting really dark from multiple full-length hennas. So, after I did just a roots-only Dark Brown Rainbow henna to cover my gray roots, I immediately followed that up with my Mellie's Mix for approx. 1 hour (no lemon per Ktani!). Here's my before and after:

Before:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=423&pictureid=11348

After:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=423&pictureid=11349

mellie

Thank you for posting your new pictures.

Mellie's Mix does not have a honey booster in it. The mullein and Roman chamomile may contribute to the lightening but neither one has a peroxide value.

Yet, with its 4 to 1 liquid to honey dilution, the mix can still lighten multiple layers of henna and whatever other plant colours are in Rainbow Dark Brown Henna, because IMO, you got the maximum alfalfa honey peroxide value, in the 1 hour.

Your results this time are not as startling as your previous results - you did not have as many henna layers though, on your hair previously.

That does make a difference.

I can definitely see that your hair is lighter - on the areas where you did not do a fresh henna application - your length and ends.

I´ve been in this last month or month and a half making honey treatments. I took a while to understand about the dilution but anyway it also took a while to see some real difference. I was also making the mistake of giving a apple vinegar rinse and that was giving me brassiness and so it seamed that my hair was dark and brassy (it was inicially a bit but not as much).
My natural colour is a medium blonde that can go really light in the summer.
Right now i have about 4 inches of virgin hair (growing since October 2007) and the rest of it is chemically dyed with a semi permanent colour.
My goal was to take away as much of the brassy colour (the semi-permanent was a lot golden by itself) as well as make my roots combining better with the lenght
Ktani is the one that has been helping me, we all now that.
I have to thank her and also the LHC to make me believe that my colour would get better and that the best thing was to wait instead of running to the hairdresser ;)
This is the last results...
My hair was washed from the day before and had a lemon rinse (that was a bit drying and with that i dont know if it helped the honey to get inside the hair cuticle).
This was my mix:
1 soap spoon of Honey
5 soap spoon of VO5 Conditioner
1 full desert spoon cinnamon or half soap spoon ?
1 egg yolk

Left it in my hair for two hours and then washed my hair REALLY well, three times shampoo (Aubrey Organics) and a deep conditioning. I could see instantly the difference in my colour and brassiness after it started to dry (it was night already but i could see it) and today i confirmed it. My roots were more simillar to the rest of it and my hair was a bit lighter.
Today i went to the beach so the second picture is after and i havent washed my hair yet so im sorry...messy messy hair.

Before:

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj121/brok3nwings/a-7.jpg

After:

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj121/brok3nwings/me2.jpg

(i couldnt do any better picture than this last one because i had no batery)

brokenwings

Thank you so much for posting your recipe and pictures.

Your hair is a lot lighter. That is what the 4 to 1 liquid to honey dilution + a honey booster like cinnamon can do - even on previously chemically dyed hair.

Your results are consistant with firebird's. Her hair was chemically lightened before she started honey lightening too - and you both used cinnamon in your latest mixes.

I had not realized that you had a golden semi-permanent colour on your hair as well as getting darker tones from the apple cider vinegar at one point.

The lemon juice rinse, used before the honey lightening treatment and rinsed out, I do not think had an effect on the honey and the hair cuticles but it would have made the conditioner go deeper into your hair to condition it, which is a good thing.

You can continue to do honey lightening as often as you wish.

I suggest that you do not continue doing the lemon rinses though. I do not think that you need them.

Your hair looks beautiful!

How is the condition of your hair now?

Ktani,
thank you so much!
Well yes i had a semi-permanent put in my hair in October, or should i call it an intensive toner? I could see a very diferent colour tone comparing to my natural colour (in my pictures). My natural colour is a golden one but not GOLD as it was with that semi...
About the cider vinegar its not about having it darker but when the hair goes brassy it seams darker to me because its not "clean" (sorry again about the bad explanation)

Ktani i think that its not about the lemon itself but the fact that dry hair is more ansious for conditioning and it absorves everything you put in your hair, am i right or is this my imagination? But i only did the lemon rinse that time to try it out ehe ;)

im missing so badly my jojoba oil! I went to Madeira and left it on Lisbon and i really can see the difference at my ends without it. I think that my hair goes dryer with the shampoo rotine (that i have to make with these treatments), i usually would use shampoo just about twice a week and i´ve been using it more and so i can feel a bit of dryness for that. But with the honey treatment i could feel i needed some oil but the conditioning was really good (for me two different things...oiling and conditioning)

brok3nwings, your hair looks much lighter! If you feel that your hair is dry after the honey and needs some oil, you could try adding a little oil to the honey mixture next time you do a treatment. EVOO is great as it also lightens :) When I do not use EVOO in my mixture, I often have to oil the ends, but when I do add it, I don't. Maybe this would help you next time?

Ktani,
thank you so much!
Well yes i had a semi-permanent put in my hair in October, or should i call it an intensive toner? I could see a very diferent colour tone comparing to my natural colour (in my pictures). My natural colour is a golden one but not GOLD as it was with that semi...
About the cider vinegar its not about having it darker but when the hair goes brassy it seams darker to me because its not "clean" (sorry again about the bad explanation)

Ktani i think that its not about the lemon itself but the fact that dry hair is more ansious for conditioning and it absorves everything you put in your hair, am i right or is this my imagination? But i only did the lemon rinse that time to try it out ehe ;)

im missing so badly my jojoba oil! I went to Madeira and left it on Lisbon and i really can see the difference at my ends without it. I think that my hair goes dryer with the shampoo rotine (that i have to make with these treatments), i usually would use shampoo just about twice a week and i´ve been using it more and so i can feel a bit of dryness for that. But with the honey treatment i could feel i needed some oil but the conditioning was really good (for me two different things...oiling and conditioning)

You are most welcome.

I am glad the the condition of your hair is good following the honey lightening.

You can try to do just a weak white vinegar rinse following the treatment - you do not have to do both a shampoo and a vinegar rinse afterward.

As to the lemon rinse result - the dryness can make the hair more porous - it depends on the hair.

If you want - you could do a separate lemon juice treatment -1 tablespoon of lemon juice to 3 tablespoons of conditioner - leave that on you hair for a while and just rinse it out. Do not add honey to that for lightening.

Honey and lemon juice do not play well together for lightening hair color.

I understand what you mean about oiling your ends.

I hope that you can get some jojoba oil soon.

firebird

I did not see your post.

You are right - it is an excellent idea to add EVOO to brok3nwings's honey lightening recipe.

Doing that not only adds an extra booster, with cinnamon already in the mix but extra conditioning to the recipe as well.

ktani but isnt it true that in the beginning of this thread it wasnt a good thing to use conditioners that contained too much oils? If that continues to be true why dont EVO interfer negatively to the lightening?

brok3nwings

That was and is true - it very much depends though on what oils.

Some conditioners have oil derivatives, extra silicone oils that are heavy and thickeners - including hydrogenated oils - oils that are in more of a solid form.

I know that extra oils along with extra waxy ingredients and film formers can interfere with honey lightening but it is difficult to pinpoint which oils and forms of oil specifically that can do that.

Recently, castor oil, often found in hair conditioners, has been reported elsewhere and suspected here, to darken hair colour.

In order for it to do that in a conditioner, there would have to be a lot of it present.

I think that it is much better to use a light conditioner and be in control of the amount of oil and the kind of oil that you want to add to the recipe. The less processed the oil the better, IMO.

EVOO and coconut oil are recommended because of their peroxide values - EVOO having the highest peroxide value among vegetable oils.

Both oils have the added bonus of being excellent conditioning oils and have been reported to work very well in honey lightening recipes with no problems.

EVOO has been recommended from the beginning of this thread.

Coconut oil is now recommended to replace coconut cream - it works just as well and is easier to find.

In both cases, I recommend not using too much oil.

It can be difficult to wash oil out of the hair, when you do that.

brok3nwings

I just clicked on to your signature picture in your profile.

I can very clearly see how much your hair has lightened since you started honey lightening.

I really liked your signature picture hair colour - I like the colour of your hair now even better.

There have now been 4 recent reports of very successful honey lightening results, all with only one thing in common - the 4 to 1 liquid to honey dilution.

According to the 4 reports, no hair was harmed by the honey lightening recipes.

2 of the recipes worked in 1 hour. 2 of the recipes were left on the hair for 2 hours, which IMO, was an extra hour that was not necessary.

bizarrogirl's recipe used cinnamon as a booster and it lightened henndigoed hair and henna layers, with 1/3 less cinnamon, than she had used in her fist honey cinnamon recipe, in 1 hour.

firebird's recipe used cinnamon and EVOO as boosters and it lightened previously chemically dyed hair, as well as her virgin hair root colour, both of which had been darkened with added red tones by a cassia obovata mix, in 2 hours.

mellie used Mellie's Mix, which uses no booster and it lightened layers of henna with added plant colour, on her length and ends (it was not applied to her freshly hennaed roots), in 1 hour.

brok3nwings's recipe used cinnamon as a booster and it lightened previously chemically dyed hair that had turned brassy and her virgin hair root colour, that had gone brassy as well, having brassy tones added by acv, in 2 hours.

I have updated the the first post in this thread to reflect the new information on Vitamin C, the 4 to 1 liquid to honey dilution, cinnamon as a booster and coconut oil as a substitution for coconut cream - in the link to TBB.

The 4 to 1 liquid to honey dilution

From my update.

"While researching, I found a website that led me to a better understanding of how to get honey to produce more peroxide, faster, in a honey lightening recipe - the 4 to 1 liquid to honey dilution.

The dilution allows honey to produce its maximum amount of peroxide in only one hour.

This means that you use 4 times the amount of liquid to the amount of honey that you use in the recipe - conditioner counts as a liquid if it is runny in consistency and light as in the Preferred List of conditioners - oil does not.

You can add water to increase the dilution or just use more conditioner.

With this dilution - the honey lightening recipe only needs to be left on the hair for 1 hour."

You can also use a herbal tea blend as in Mellie's Mix, or a single herb tea as the liquid.

The Vitamin C content of selected ingredients

Aloe vera gel, about 350 mg per 8 oz or 240 ml or 1 cup
http://www.aloeveracanada.ca/about_av.html

Black Pepper, 1.3 mg in 1 tbsp or 6 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c203E.html

Cardamom, ground, 1.2 mg - in 1 tbsp or 6 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c202q.html

Chamomile tea, brewed, 0 Vitamin C
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c212q.html

Cinnamon, ground (cassia), .3 mg in 1tbsp or 8 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c202u.html

Coconut cream, canned sweetened, 0 Vitamin C
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20oC.html

Coconut cream, raw, 6.7 mg in 1 cup or 240 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20oB.html

Coconut meat, dried, creamed, 0.4 mg or in 1 ounce or 28 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20oo.html

Coconut milk, canned, 2.3 mg in 1 cup or 226 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20oE.html

Coconut milk, raw, 6.7 mg in 1 cup or 240 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20oD.html

Coconut oil - 0 Vitamin C
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c208C.html

Extra virgin olive oil, 0 Vitamin C
http://www.edenfoods.com/store/nlea.php?products_id=104340

Lemon juice, canned or bottled, 60.5 mg in 1 cup or 244 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20VH.html

Lemon juice, frozen unsweetened, single strength, 76.9 mg in 1 cup or 244 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20VI.html

Lemon juice, raw, 112 mg in 1 cup or 244 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20VG.html

Nutmeg, ground, 0 Vitamin C
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c2039.html

Orange juice, canned, unsweetened, 85.7 mg in 1 cup or 249 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20Vo.html

Orange juice, chilled, includes from concentrate, 81.9 mg in 1 cup or 249 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20Vp.html

Orange juice, frozen concentrate, unsweetened, diluted with 3 volume water, 96.9 mg in 1 cup or 249 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20Vr.html

Orange juice, frozen concentrate, unsweetened, undiluted, 393 mg in 1 cup or 284 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20Vq.html

Orange juice, raw, 124 mg in 1 cup or 248 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20Vn.html

Tomato juice, canned with salt added, 44.5 mg in 1 cup or 243 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20hM.html

Tomato juice, canned without salt added, 44.5 mg in 1 cup or 243 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20li.html

Tomato paste, with salt added, 28.7 mg in 1/2 cup or 131 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20lj.html

Tomato paste, without salt added, 57.4 mg in 1 cup or 262 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20hN.html

Tomato sauce, canned, 17.2 mg in 1 cup or 245 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20hQ.html

Tomatoes, canned, crushed, 2.6 mg in 1 ounce or 28 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20ik.html

Turmeric, ground, 1.7 mg in 1 tbsp or 7 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c203Q.html


Nutrition facts per serving - Vitamin C content - these are American statistics - these numbers may help explain certain results apart from the natural peroxide level of the honey used in a lightening recipe.

I have included the 5 spices; black pepper, cardamom, cinnamon, nutmeg and turmeric, with the highest peroxide values, on this list.
http://books.google.ca/books?id=KZa8aPxR_-wC&pg=PA322&lpg=PA322&dq=cinnamon+pov&source=web&ots=pjIeAfr5-Z&sig=OMZG-eBpqhAP5xevko2Ot2tkeW4&hl=en

Minerals can decompose hydrogen peroxide - in the links from Nutrition Facts, you will also find the mineral content for each item. The primary metals that can affect peroxide are iron, manganese, copper, nickel and chromium.

these ones were taken today (two days after the honey treatment)

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj121/brok3nwings/hair3.jpg

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj121/brok3nwings/100_7450-1.jpg

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj121/brok3nwings/hair.jpg

brok3nwings

Thank you for posting the new pictures.

WOW!

That is some difference in colour.

Your hair looks fantastic.

The last picture looks a bit different in that light but I can still see a huge difference in the colour.

This link has your before picture.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=98244&postcount=503

You go girl!

brok3nwings's current honey lightening results, with the 4 to 1 liquid to honey dilution and a booster, show just how much honey lightening can do to remove brassiness from hair colour, with only 1 treatment and in only 2 hours - although I think that this treatment recipe would have yielded the same result in only 1 hour.

In previous attempts to do honey lightening, brok3nwings had not been diluting the honey well enough at one point, using the wrong kind of conditioner and recipe proportions (heavy conditioners contain less water and some contain extra waxy ingredients and film formers that can interfere with honey lightening), that can yield little to no results and then later used acv as a vinegar rinse following a treatment, which added more brassiness to her hair colour.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=80458&postcount=417

This time, in addition to the 4 to 1 liquid to honey dilution and the cinnamon booster, brok3nwings used a light conditioner and no acv afterward, which altogether yielded great success for her.

The light conditioner obviously had enough water in it to be the only liquid in the 4 to 1 liquid to honey dilution, as well as not having extra ingredients in it that interfered with the lightening and her new recipe worked extremely well, IMO.

In the original Honey thread, kathrynrose did an experiment to see how different conditioners worked with honey lightening.

She tried Aussie Cleanse and Mend Conditioner and reported very poor results.

Using the same recipe and honey but with a light conditioner, her hair colour lightened.

Here is the ingredient list for Aussie Cleanse and Mend Conditioner, broken down, with my descriptions in bold.

"Water,
Cetyl Alcohol, - waxy ingredient
Stearamidopropyl Dimethylamine, - waxy ingredient
Stearyl Alcohol, - waxy ingredient
Quaternium 18, - film former
BIS Aminopropyl Dimethicone, - film former
Cetearyl Alcohol, - waxy ingredient
Polysorbate 60,
Benzyl Alcohol,
Fragrance,
Hydroxyethyl Cellulose, - film former
Glyceryl Stearate, - waxy ingredient
Oleyl Alcohol, - film former
Citric Acid, EDTA,
Psidium Guajava Fruit Extract,
Citrus Glauca Fruit Extract (Australian Desert Lime Extract),
Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice,
Methylchloroisothiazolinone,
Methylisothiazolinone"
http://www.drugstore.com/products/prod.asp?pid=162180&catid=11938

brok3nwings used an Alberto V05 conditioner in her successful recipe, as the only liquid in the 4 to 1 liquid to honey dilution, along with the cinnamon.

Here is the Preferred List of conditioners. There are a number of light V05 conditioners, aside from those named here.

"Preferred Conditioner List
Note: This list is a guide. These hair conditioners have been reported to work well in the recipes.
Alberto V05 Champagne & Strawberries, Alberto V05 Honeydew Smoothie, Alberto V05 Kiwi Lime Squeeze, Alberto VO5 Sun Kissed Raspberry, Alberto V05 Vanilla Mint Tea, Citre Shine, Herbal Essences Hello Hydration, Kiss My Face, Mane 'n Tail, Tigi Oatmeal & Honey."

Hello to all!

I have read this thread from the beginning to end... wow!
I have copied a lot of info in a file to read it later and process all this information better.
I have a question now that has been posted before but I wonder if there is any update.

I do not live in the States now, and I wonder if any european user can report a conditioner that is easy to find here, or if there is any generic brand that can be find in both continents.

I thought I would go for the herbal essences one, but the "hello hydration" is not available in my country. Herbal essences has other lines here.
I wonder why the big industries do that. I hate that you get used to one product that is a worldwide brand and when you change location is not available there.

Well, congrats to all for your wonderful progress and thanks to Katani for all the work, compilations, research and advise she gives to us.

Zenity

Welcome to LHC. And you are most welcome.

I am very pleased to read that you have enjoyed reading the thread.

There is a lot of information to process but the most recent information, in the last several pages is I believe, the most important.

The 4 to 1 liquid to honey dilution, the right kind of conditioner if used, the spice boosters - cinnamon and possibly cardamom, no Vitamin C ingredients in the recipe, a white vinegar rinse or shampoo to deal with honey residue, and keeping the hair covered with plastic while the treatment is on the hair. And the fact that other than some reports of honey residue dryness, the treatments cause no ill effects to the hair.

While you are waiting to hear about a European equivalent to the conditioner that you are used to, you have several options.

You could try Mellie's Mix - Roman chamomile, mullein, alfalfa or other honey - you could use a dark coloured honey blend - and add a booster if you wish.

Or honey, water or a single herb herb tea like Roman chamomile, a bit of extra virgin olive oil or coconut oil and another booster like cinnamon.



Or you could check out the labels of the Herbal Essences conditioners that you have available to you and compare the ingredients to the Hello Hydration ingredient list. As long as the main ingredients are the same and in the same amounts - their positions on the ingredient list indicating their concentrations - and the conditioner is light - they should be fine to use.

Hello Hydration Conditioner ingredient list
"Water, Stearyl Alcohol, CyclopentaSiloxane, Cetyl Alcohol, Stearamidopropyl Dimethylamine, Dimethicone, Vanilla Planifolia Fruit Extract, Cocos Nucifera Milk (Coconut), Fragrance, Glutamic Acid, Benzyl Alcohol, EDTA, Methylchloroisothiazolinone, Methylisothiazolinone, Citric Acid, Blue 1"
http://www.drugstore.com/products/prod.asp?pid=159823&catid=10329

Ktani,

Thanks for taking the time to find some good alternatives for me.

I think that a good option could be to use any of the above listed recipes with a little bit of EVOO since I am not sure about what conditioner to use. That brings another question to my mind: Has anyones used jojoba oil in any of the honey mixes? What do you think about it?

At the place I live I can get honey and EVOO directly from the farmers. I hope the local plants that the bees use to produce the honey are the "good" ones!
The problem, for me, might be adding cinnamon. Not sure if the cinnamon gives a reddish tone to the hair. My hair is quite dark and naturally goes to red as soon a the sun reflects on it. I can't say that I like it...

As soon as I try it I will report my results.

Thanks a lot!

Ktani,

Thanks for taking the time to find some good alternatives for me.

I think that a good option could be to use any of the above listed recipes with a little bit of EVOO since I am not sure about what conditioner to use. That brings another question to my mind: Has anyones used jojoba oil in any of the honey mixes? What do you think about it?

At the place I live I can get honey and EVOO directly from the farmers. I hope the local plants that the bees use to produce the honey are the "good" ones!
The problem, for me, might be adding cinnamon. Not sure if the cinnamon gives a reddish tone to the hair. My hair is quite dark and naturally goes to red as soon a the sun reflects on it. I can't say that I like it...

As soon as I try it I will report my results.

Thanks a lot!

Zenity

There is no way to know in advance if the honey you choose to use will produce enough peroxide for the treatment to be successful unless you can test it, or unless it is the over processed UF honey, which is very pale yellow in colour, thicker than regular honey and tastes different than regular honey - which you can avoid buying.

brok3nwings was also concerned that cinnamon might add red tones to her hair - it did not and has not been reported to do so in this thread in any reports on honey cinnamon treatments.

Take another look at her pictures - she used honey and cinnamon - no red.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=99995&postcount=516

This link has her before picture - the honey recipe that she used with cinnamon reduced the brassiness she had to none, IMO.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=98244&postcount=503

And firebird's latest results. The honey cinnamon recipe she used lightened the red/gold tones a previous cassia treatment had given her hair and did not add any colour of its own.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=94944&postcount=489

The 4 to 1 liquid to honey dilution was used in both cases - and both reported results were very successful.

I do not know what effect jojoba oil will have in the treatment. It does have a peroxide value - it should be ok to use but I do not recall anyone using it in a honey lightening treatment. It has no report track record. See "General Specifications" in this link.
http://bulknaturaloils.com/plantoil/longchain/jojobaoil.html

EVOO has the highest peroxide value among vegetable oils - I suggest using it - not too much - or coconut oil - both have been reported to work very well in honey lightening treatments as boosters.

I look forward to reading your results.

Zenity

I think that the natural progression when most dark hair lightens is from dark brown or black to red to brown to gold to yellow.

Honey lightening might bring out the natural red in your hair.

That would not be from the cinnamon.

I suggest that you strand test first.

Ktani,

I was actually thinking on doing the same type of test.
Thnks! I will try and see what happens.
Wish me luck! ;-)

Hey yall!!
I haven't been back because my computer has been down :/ so i finally got it back up today!
I wonder...
I usually mix my water with honey in a big batch maybe around 700 mL and use some and spray some later on, sometimes maybe weeks later.

Do you think it would give you less results since I have mixed the two together previously? I still add the cinnimon the day of but I want max results as quick as possible :)

Zenity - the best of luck!

Serea - I do not recommend keeping a batch for much longer than a day or so in the fridge - when you add water, I think that it can go bad over time and I am not sure how long that the peroxide stays potent.

If you spray the solution on your hair and not cover the hair - the treatment can dry out and become ineffective.

It is much better IMO, to make a fresh batch each time - using the 4 to 1 liquid to honey dilution and use it right away - you only need to leave the honey cinnamon or honey lightening treatment with this dilution on the hair, covered with plastic, for 1 hour.

Alright! Thanks ktani
if i leave it on the whole night.. is there going to be a big difference than if only an hour since it reaches its peak for like peroxide-ness (wow i spelled that horribly wrong) in an hour?

Hmm run what IMO means again?
The lingo is still very new to me :)

Alright! Thanks ktani
if i leave it on the whole night.. is there going to be a big difference than if only an hour since it reaches its peak for like peroxide-ness (wow i spelled that horribly wrong) in an hour?

Hmm run what IMO means again?
The lingo is still very new to me :)

Serea

Sorry for the short form - IMO means in my opinion.

I see no reason to leave the 4 to 1 liquid to honey dilution on the hair longer than 1 hour because that is the time needed for the peroxide in the honey to reach its maximum level - I do not believe that leaving the treatment on the hair longer than the hour will yield better results.

Results reported with the 1 hour only have been excellent - better than previous attempts with the same recipe, left on the hair longer but with a different dilution.

Ohh hmm. So it probably doesn't matter. Alright! I'll try it for an hour tonight.! Wish me luck!
My hair is still very dark brown but i've only done it max 5 times within a month. :/ I've been getting worse at keeping it up. Still taking pics though I just see no difference. I'll post them when I find a change :) Thanks for all your help ktani

Serea

How have you been doing the treatment - your recipe proportions and method?

It sounds as if you were diluting the honey way too much to be effective - 700 ml is a lot of water depending on how much honey you used.

For every 1/4 cup of honey - you need only 1 cup of water.

Hey y'all!
I've been off experimenting and results are looking good.
I misted 1/6 cup of honey, 3/6 water, 1/6 cinnamin in damp hair with no conditioner
but some sections are more lighter than other but it gave off more of a highlighted affect.
I left it in for about 2 hours
I'll take pictures next post if i can!

Serea

I went back and found your last recipe - above, post 459, before you started to do the 700 ml dilution.

I recommended the 4 to 1 liquid to honey dilution. I think that there was some confusion as to what the dilution meant to you.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=89873&postcount=460

You said that were getting some results and that you were using a shower cap to cover the hair from another one of your posts here but that the hair was sagging a bit from underneath.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=89985&postcount=461

I recommended a large bag to contain all of the hair and pinning your hair up to help.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=90040&postcount=462

Prior to that, you were leaving the honey lightening treatment on your hair for only 20 minutes at a time - 1/3 of the time needed to get good results but even then you said that you had seen some lightening.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=85429&postcount=444

I believe that the 4 to 1 liquid to honey dilution was not made clear by me to you back then, for example, to every tablespoon of honey - you need 4 tablespoons of water or conditioner, if it is a light one.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=85446&postcount=445

I think that from what you reported, you thought that you were making some progress with the treatments earlier but you went from too little time - 20 minutes - to too little a dilution, 1/6 honey to 3/6ths water for 2 hours - to too much of a dilution, 700 ml - good luck this time.

Here are my three pics :) I don't know if I have had any progress, but I'm having fun with my potions :D

Before (oriental black hair -1/4 chinese- with bleached highlights done in August 2007)

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/3884/otrsfqc6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

After the first treatment with Mellie's mix but without the squeeze of lemon.

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/2290/p1030392gp5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

After the second treatment with Mellie's mix again

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/3729/p1030398ig8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I know the lights are different

Serea

nayver used Mellie's Mix - 1 tablespoon of Roman Chamomile (Anthemis nobilis), 1 tablespoon of mullein, 1/4 cup of honey and 1 cup of water on her naturally black hair with faded hi-lights. She could not get the alfalfa honey that the recipe calls for - another honey was used, a dark coloured honey. Mellie's Mix has no peroxide booster in it.

Mellie's Mix always had the 4 to 1 liquid to honey dilution.

nayver left out the squeeze of lemon, orginally in the recipe, on my recommendation, after research I had found earlier, stated that any Vitamin C in honey was oxidized by peroxide on dilution and that the peroxide amount that the honey produced was depleted in doing so.

The same research which was about testing honey for its peroxide value, stated that to measure a honey's peroxide level, the honey needed to be diluted with 4 x the amount of water, and left to sit for 1 hour before testing, to let the honey produce its maximum amount of peroxide.

I applied that research to my recommendations for honey lightening recipes and it has made a positive difference in the success of results reported.

The research also explained to me why Mellie's Mix had been so successful for mellie with alfalfa honey but not with clover honey in her first tests under the same conditions. The alfalfa honey had obviously produced enough peroxide to both oxidize the Vitamin C in the squeeze of lemon and lighten mellie's hair - the clover honey had not and the exact same recipe with clover honey failed to lighten her hair.

First nayver slept in the treatment and it lightened her highlights.
Then she repeated the treatment for 1 hour only. It lightened her black hair at the root area - to a reddish colour - just as lightening by conventional means would do.

Except that there was no reported damage to her hair.

She had dry ends after the first treatment - that was resolved with shampoo and a vinegar rinse.

Ktani I didn't read your message before, but I did I as planned. I rinse with vinegar first, then shampoo and then conditioner and my hair is soft, not crunchy, like the first time. Hair is definitely getting lighter, but I would be doing applications for the next weeks. My mixture was watery also, but since my hair was not dripping wet I could apply it better.

nayver's report on the condition of her hair, following the 2nd treatment with Mellie's Mix, also minus the squeeze of lemon.

My message had been to wash her hair then apply the vinegar rinse - I do not think that both are necessary following a treatment but it is optional.

Other than dry ends, a honey residue result that is easily resolved, multiple honey lightening treatments have not been reported to damage the hair to date, in 5 Honey threads that I have started, from about 1.5 years ago to now.

For hair that has been lightened by the honey recipes, if the roots are darker, the recipe can be done on the root area only - to help blend the hair colour better. This can be done with any recipe that has been successful.

firebird did this and it worked. This was before the 4 to 1 liquid to honey dilution information, and on only needing only 1 hour for a treatment using it.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=60047&postcount=254

Hi Ktani, I have a bee-related question for you, I thought since you are the honey geek you might know the answer. Does beeswax have a shelf life? I just found a box of pure beeswax bars that I bought about 12 years ago for art projects. The beeswax smell is kind of faint. I just used some of this to make lotion bars, and they are fine, but I'm wondering, can pure beeswax go rancid, or loose any of it's beneficial properties?

lynnala

How about a shelf life like honey - 3400 years - stored under the right conditions of course, lol.

There is a paragraph on uses and functions too.
http://www.mainebee.com/articles/hive_products.php

More on beeswax
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beeswax

I have seen various times mentioned on the net from 24 months to 5 years.

I think that it would depend on what you wish to use it for - cosmetics - I would buy new beeswax - artwork - use up what you have.

What? Only 3400 years? Geez. Nothing lasts these days, does it?;)

lynalla

My apologies - how about 4000 years?
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1475-4754.1995.tb00733.x?journalCode=arch

This website claims that the shelf life is just about indefinite - for cosmetics - I would still prefer newer stock.
http://www.beeswax.co.nz/information.htm

lynalla

My apologies - how about 4000 years?
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1475-4754.1995.tb00733.x?journalCode=arch

This website claims that the shelf life is just about indefinite - for cosmetics - I would still prefer newer stock.
http://www.beeswax.co.nz/information.htmWow, that's pretty amazing!

I am constantly amazed by what honey and bee products can do.

I have not researched the other products though in any detail.

It seems to me that for henndigo users who want to lighten their hair colour with honey and cinnamon, this recipe
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bizarrogirl/2454335633/in/set-72157594199905645/

would have the cinnamon mixed in well enough to help prevent the irritation that can happen from a cinnamon spill on skin.

The conditioner, honey and water content of the recipe should IMO, help buffer the cinnamon irritation factor on the scalp as well.

An extra booster like EVOO can be added - not too much though.

This recipe has the 4 to 1, liquid to honey dilution. Adding EVOO will not affect the dilution - oil is not a liquid for this purpose only in the sense that it does not contain water.

The 4 to 1 liquid to honey dilution is about diluting honey with 4 x the amount of water - most light conditioners are about 90% water - that is why they can count as part of the dilution, while oil does not.

It is not that honey lightening did not work before the 4 to 1 water to honey dilution - a better way to describe it than just saying liquid, IMO.

Honey lightening has worked based on reports in the Honey threads, including this one.

The results though were more unpredictable.

The 4 to 1 information along with the Vitamin C information, the conditioner information and the fact that some honeys naturally produce less peroxide I think, makes honey lightening less of a gamble in producing the desired results.

The results reported so far have been less gradual and better than expected when this dilution is used, in combination with the other factors being taken into account.

hello everyone,

I wrote about my SMT (without heating up the honey) and it worked quite well. Really lightened my hair, but now about 2 weeks (I think)? later my hair is the same colour again. It looked like the henna has re-oxidized or so I am not sure why.

I wanted to do more treatments but after the SMT my hair started shedding massive amounts (not sure if it is from the SMT or the sudden change of the weather). today is the first day I didn't loose handsfull of hair. So I think I will not do another SMT soon (just to be sure).

Maybe I will try the honey and water, but I am not really confident this will work. Has anyone had a good result with this?

Thank you so much already.

Lots of greetings from Helen.

boukje

Honey lightening does not usually redarken.

That can happen with lemon juice and possibly other recipes with Vitamin C, depending on the content.

Shedding has not been reported followig honey lightening.

If you want to try again, I suggest that you try the 4 to 1 water to honey, no aloe vera gel and perhaps a preferred conditioner from the list - conditioner can be used as part of the water in the dilution.

"Preferred Conditioner List
Note: This list is a guide. These hair conditioners have been reported to work well in the recipes.
Alberto V05 Champagne & Strawberries, Alberto V05 Honeydew Smoothie, Alberto V05 Kiwi Lime Squeeze, Alberto VO5 Sun Kissed Raspberry, Alberto V05 Vanilla Mint Tea, Citre Shine, Herbal Essences Hello Hydration, Kiss My Face, Mane 'n Tail, Tigi Oatmeal & Honey."

For hennaed hair, peroxide boosters are recommended but Mellie's Mix has been reported to work well without them.

Here are 2 possible recipes for you to try, with the 4 to 1 dilution. The dilution ratio is important to get the maximum peroxide value from the honey.
With either recipe, you should only need to leave the treatment on your hair, covered in plastic, for 1 hour.

bizarrogirl's recipe 1/4 cup honey, 4 Tablespoons cinnamon, 1/2 cup water, 1/2 cup V05 Kiwi Lime Conditioner
Her results with details
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bizarrogirl/sets/72157594199905645/detail/

and Mellie's Mix
1 Tablespoon Roman chamomile (Anthemis nobilis), 1 Tablespoon mullein, 1/4 cup alfalfa honey, 1 cup water.
Her Results on henndigoed hair
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=57442&postcount=224

and on multiple applications of Rainbow Dark Brown Henna
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=98004&postcount=501

You're Welcome ktani :)

My hair is not much better after the SMT (aka honey treatment), I mean by this no real improvement and also not a bad result.

My hair is very shiny and soft, looks moisturized, but I must add that this was also the case before the SMT, since I always use a shampoo bar now for my hair.

I did an SMT without heating up a few weeks ago and found out that is was a massive difference, and got rid of so much henna that I decided to do it again.

I didn't really carefully measured the amount of honey I put in the SMT. I did about 4 tablespoons I think and a big squirt of aloe vera gell (a bit more than normal) and fewer conditioner, so the SMT get a bit more runny.

I left it on for a while because I put it in after dinner and washed it before going to bed, it wasn't a real hassle. I don't want to put too much honey in it as I have to hennaed then bleached and hennaed again streaks the front part of my hair and honey dries them out quite a bit.

My overal hair health is fine so the honey makes it nice and shiney but not dry and/or limp. Just nice. But I must add SMT makes my hair greasy much faster. I will do it again next week (weekend) and I will try to make some pictures of it.

greetings from Helen.

boukje

I put parts of your post in bold.

I thought that you had done more than one SMT but I reread your post and I see now that there was only one.

boukje

The one thing I noticed and commented on earlier at the time, was that in your SMT, you used more aloe gel than conditioner in the mix.

The peroxide in honey will oxidize Vitamin C in a honey lightening recipe and is depleted in doing so.

Aloe vera gel, as it turns out, contains Vitamin C, a huge surprise to me, I had never checked it for that before now - about 350 mg per 8 oz or 236 g.
Scroll down to almost the bottom of the page here.
http://www.aloeveracanada.ca/about_av.html

That is a higher Vitamin C content than raw lemon juice.

Lemon juice, raw - 112 mg or 187% Vitamin C - in 1 cup or 244 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20VG.html

With Vitamin C, hair redarkens after it has been lightened, though not completely back to its former colour usually, from reports on lemon juice lightening.

I think what happened was this.

The honey was not too well diluted in your SMT.

The peroxide it did produce had to contend with the Vitamin C in the aloe vera gel, which would have lowered the amount, in this case significantly, IMO.

The generous amount of aloe vera gel had enough Vitamin C to lighten your hair to some degree, but like after reports on lemon juice lightening, your hair later redarkened.

Hi all! I'm very interested in lightening my (black) dyed hair to a color closer to my natural medium brown. I tried a honey, tomato sauce, and EVOO recipe I found somewhere (was it on this thread? I can't remember), and got a slight lightening and am now interested in bizarrogirl's recipe of honey, cinnamon, water, and condish.

My question is that I own a conditioner that I was wondering if it would work, if one of the talented folks here could look at the ingredients and tell me if there's anything that would keep it from working? I'm not so great with looking at ingredients and knowing what they are, so it would be greatly appreciated. If my condish won't work, I can always go get one of the VO5 conditioners listed in the preferred list.

Thanks!

Garnier Fructis Fortifying Sleek & Shine Conditioner

Water (Aqua), Cetearyl Alcohol, Behentrimonium Chloride, Amodimethicone, Pyrus Malus (Apple) Fruit Extract, Fragrance (Parfum), Cetyl Esters, Lauryl PEG/PPG-18/18 Methicone, Methylparaben, Persea Gratissima (Avocado Oil), Niacinamide, Pyridoxine HCl, Trideceth 12, Citric Acid, Prunus Armeniaca (Apricot Kernel Oil), Saccharum Officinarum (Sugar Cane Extract), Chlorhexidine Dihydrochloride, Cetrimonium Chloride, Linalool, Butylphenyl Methylpropional, Citrus Limonum (Lemon Peel Extract), Camellia Sinensis (Camellia Sinensis Leaf Extract)

I see some cones in there (amodimethicone, methicone?), so I'm not thinking it's going to work. :shrug:

KajiKodomo

Actually, your conditioner does not look too bad but I would recommend going with one of the V05 conditioners in your case.

Black hair can be tricky, although Mellie's Mix, which has no conditioner or peroxide boosters in it lightened nayver's naturally black hair, on the 2nd try in only 1 hour.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=105685&postcount=534

Thanks for the quick reply ktani! I'll definitely pick up one of the V05 conditioners tonight. I mean, it's only a couple bucks, haha!

Yeah, I know that black hair is tricky. I also know that I'd much rather be doing this method of lightening than using color removers, as I had big issues with them before. In any case, I feel rather stupid as the reason I buzzcut my hair 2 years ago was because I was trying to get the black dye out. Then I redyed it black later, saying I would keep dyeing it black, then recently decided that I want my natural color back. :o

Even if I don't get much lightening, it's not a big deal for me as I'm fine growing it out, just want to try to fade the black quicker than it will do on it's own.

KajiKodomo

I think that I edited in a link in my reply while you were replying.

Have another look at my post - you have 2 options.

I am glad to hear that you had some sucess with the honey tomato lightening recipe but 2 things have changed since then.

Recipe ingredients with Vitamin C contents are no longer being recommended for the recipes and the 4 to1 water to honey dilution has significantly changed the rate of lightening each treatment can produce, according to recent reports, in just 1 hour now.

KajiKodomo

I think that I edited in a link in my reply while you were replying.

Have another look at my post - you have 2 options.

I am glad to hear that you had some sucess with the honey tomato lightening recipe but 2 things have changed since then.

Recipe ingredients with Vitamin C contents are no longer being recommended for the recipes and the 4 to1 water to honey dilution has significantly changed the rate of lightening each treatment can produce, according to recent reports, in just 1 hour now.

I've actually seen her results, as I've read the entire thread now. It looks great, but I won't be expecting results like that for myself, at least not right away. I am deciding against the other mix as I have the ingredients for the other at home. I decided to use the V05 condish as I want to make sure I have the best results. Maybe I'll give the other mix a go sometime in the future.

I do realize (now) that vitamin C doesn't work well with honey, as I just read the entire thread this morning. I suppose I didn't read it in it's entirety before I tried the tomato sauce recipe. I guess I'll be an example for those who want to try something and don't read over the entire thread first, haha! :D

I'm very excited about this recipe as it will smell much much better than the tomato sauce recipe, which stank awfully bad. :D

I have updated the Vitamin C content ingredient reference list here, to include aloe vera gel.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=83009&postcount=429

I've actually seen her results, as I've read the entire thread now. It looks great, but I won't be expecting results like that for myself, at least not right away. I am deciding against the other mix as I have the ingredients for the other at home. I decided to use the V05 condish as I want to make sure I have the best results. Maybe I'll give the other mix a go sometime in the future.

I do realize (now) that vitamin C doesn't work well with honey, as I just read the entire thread this morning. I suppose I didn't read it in it's entirety before I tried the tomato sauce recipe. I guess I'll be an example for those who want to try something and don't read over the entire thread first, haha! :D

I'm very excited about this recipe as it will smell much much better than the tomato sauce recipe, which stank awfully bad. :D

KajiKodomo

No worries - things have been happening fast and furious with this thread recently.

The 4 to 1 dilution and the Vitamin C information came from the same link that I found while researching.

I applied the information to my recommendations for honey lightening recipes because it made sense and explained to me why previous reported results were more gradual and less predictable.

I had no idea how successful that information would turn out to be until reports started coming in - and all I can say is that it has turned honey lightening on its head, so to speak.

The reported results with both things considered are more than I could have predicted and are better than I thought possible in terms of the amount of time a treatment can take now, to get desired results - just 1 hour.

The link that resulted in - my changing my honey recipe recommendations, the course of my research - ingredients with a Vitamin C content - and the reported results of those who have followed my new recommendations, so far.

The information in the link comes from "the Food-Control Department laboratory in Amsterdam."

You will have to navigate through multiple typos - a problem with translating from Dutch to English.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/H2O2.html

It's just so interesting to me that there are so many products that can work for such dramatically alternative uses. I would have never thought to put honey in my hair, I never would have guessed that it had a peroxide content. I love this community! :D

I'm glad that you've done the research to find this information and have given it to those of us here who wish to lighten our hair without using bleach or any other harmful method. I know it means a lot to me, and I'm sure it does to the others as well. Thank you for doing that, and thank everyone else who has come up with ideas and methods in this thread as well!

I'm just so excited now to try it out! :D

KajiKodomo

You are most welcome.

Other than honey residue dryness - no hair has been reported to be harmed by honey lightening, to date.

I have found the research to be exciting, surprising and challenging because it needs to be interpreted and analyzed.

Th research though would mean nothing, without those willing to try the various methods and recipes and more than that - create recipes of their own and post them - often with pictures of results.

This thread and the previous Honey threads would not exist, without the LHC members who reported that honey had lightened their hair to begin with - over a year and a half ago and longer, in other threads.

I'll definitely be back to this thread to report my results with my experiment (that I'll be doing this afternoon). :D

KajiKodomo

Good luck!

I look forward to reading your report and seeing pictures, if possible.

Yes I will have pictures, even if I personally don't see a difference, as pictures are the best way to tell. :D

I'm a camera w-h-o-r-e, so no problem with pictures. Haha! :D

My research shock of the day - make that the year, lol.

Aloe vera gel, - 350 mg Vitamin C per 8 oz or 236 g
Scroll down to almost the bottom of the page here.
http://www.aloeveracanada.ca/about_av.html

Aloe vera gel contains more Vitamin C than raw lemon juice - a lot more - over 3 x the amount .

Lemon juice, raw - 112 mg or 187% Vitamin C - in 1 cup or 244 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20VG.html

Lemon juice, canned or bottled - 60.5 mg or 101% Vitamin C - in 1 cup or 244 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20VH.html

Lemon juice, frozen unsweetened, single strength - 76.9 mg or 128% Vitamin C - in 1 cup or 244 g
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20VI.html

The Vitamin C content of other possible honey lightening recipe ingredients can be checked out here.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=83009&postcount=429

So am I up to speed now

No vit. C (aka lemon and such)

a 4-1 ratio 4 parts honey to 1 part water? add cond. I have used kiwi lime.

do not heat, cover with plastic wrap and relax.

leave on 1 hour?

I have done this in the past with success on my blonde hair but now it is dark (im an idiot and darkened it) I wanted to check in again because you are finding new things all the time.

I have med to dark brown hair that used ot be blonde, I have some henna gloss on it, I dont mind keeping the red tones eather way is ok just looking to get some lightening.

Is this the best way or am I missing something

So am I up to speed now

No vit. C (aka lemon and such)

a 4-1 ratio 4 parts honey to 1 part water? add cond. I have used kiwi lime.

do not heat, cover with plastic wrap and relax.

leave on 1 hour?

I have done this in the past with success on my blonde hair but now it is dark (im an idiot and darkened it) I wanted to check in again because you are finding new things all the time.

I have med to dark brown hair that used ot be blonde, I have some henna gloss on it, I dont mind keeping the red tones eather way is ok just looking to get some lightening.

Is this the best way or am I missing something

naturechild

For some reason the 4 to 1 keeps confusing people - or it is how I explain it.

Very simply it is this - For whatever amount of honey you use - add 4 x the amount of water or conditioner if it is a light one or a combination of both to the recipe. You can also use herbal tea.

So

4 parts water or herbal tea or conditioner or conditioner + water, but not oil - to 1 part honey. You can use oil as a booster but it does not count in the dilution. The recommended oil boosters are EVOO and coconut, possibly jojoba. Spice boosters - cinnamon, possibly cardamom.

It is nice to see you back in the thread.

I remember honey lightening being successful for you but offhand I do not remember the details.

With the new dilution, you should be able to have the treatment on your hair for only 1 hour, to see even better results than before.

Everything else you said is right on the mark.

Thanks so much it is nie to be remembered, with all of the girls here I am suprised you remembered me.

Thank you for clearing up the 4-1. I would have been going through the honey pretty fast.

should I still try sitting in the sun for faster lightening?

I have to go home so I will chat again tomarrow.

naturechild

Of course I remember you - I reread the threads but I have a fairly good long term memory - far from perfect though.

Short term memory? - I will not discuss that, lol.

No sunlight - heat and UV can negatively affect the honey as well as be bad for you. I do not recall that you did that before - see what I mean - far from perfect.

Having reread my posts on the 4 to 1 - it is how I have stated it that has been confusing - 4 to 1 liquid to honey or water to honey.

So, from now on, it is 4 parts water to 1 part honey - with explanations of the various liquid options after that.

This was a really fast search but - surprise to me anyway - aloe vera gel is promoted to lighten pigmentation on the skin.

".... decrease the intensity of pigmentation .... lightens the dark spots .... the skin."
http://www.beautyfeast.com/aloevera/Aloe-Vera-Health-Benefits.htm (http://www.beautyfeast.com/aloevera/Aloe-Vera-Health-Benefits.htm)

".... reduces the intensity of pigmentation and lightens dark spots .... face"
http://www.indianchild.com/health/benefits-of-aloe-vera.htm (http://www.indianchild.com/health/benefits-of-aloe-vera.htm)

".... reduces pigmentation intensity .... lightens dark spots"
http://ezinearticles.com/?Say-Hello-to-Aloe-Vera-Juice-Gel-for-Healthy-Skin&id=415661 (http://ezinearticles.com/?Say-Hello-to-Aloe-Vera-Juice-Gel-for-Healthy-Skin&id=415661)

I have deleted these mixes as the picture links were broken and re-posted to post number 1602

wintersun99

Thank you for your recipes and pictures and such precise details - and the lighting in the pictures.

Well I can definitely see lightening with the 4 parts water conditioner combo to 1 part honey recipes.

Question - is this the conditioner that you used?

"Water , Stearamidopropyl Dimethylamine Lactate , Distearyldimonium Chloride , Stearyl Alcohol , Emulsifying Wax NF , Cetyl Alcohol , Coconut Oil , Glycerin , Sodium Chloride , Vegetable Oil , Fragrance , Hydrolyzed Protein , Lanolin , Phenoxyethanol , Methylparaben , Propylparaben , FD&C Yellow No. 5"
http://www.walgreens.com/beauty/product.jsp?catid=304646&navaction=jump&navcount=0&id=prod8946#ingredient

If if is it is a bit on the heavy side.

But you are definitely seeing results and good results.

yes, that is the conditioner, BUT I wouldn't recommend it. I have always used VO5 Kiwi Lime (I just ran out) and I like that conditioner MUCH better. It is lighter, (contains more water) I believe

I tried another honey treatment this weekend. Per ktani's recommendations, I left out the lemon and sun in my Mellie's Mix, and left it on for an hour under plastic & a towel. Here are my results:

Before:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=423&pictureid=12148

Mellie's Mix 1st treatment:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=423&pictureid=11349

Mellie's Mix 2nd treatment (and brushed out)
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=423&pictureid=12149http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=423&pictureid=12200

wintersun99

That conditioner is on the Preferred List but they may have changed the formula between when the list was first done and now.

The reason I asked is that I do think that you will get even better results with a lighter one.

You are though getting results, you were not before and it does look promising.

I believe that you will see the indigo lightening soon with the V05.

What also may make a difference to the number of treatments required - the number of layers of henna and indigo on your hair.

mellie

Those are great results!

Did you use Mellie's Mix with or without the squeeze of lemon?

Your hair looks amazing!

The layers of henna and plant colouring are no match for Mellie's Mix.

Melli - your hair really IS looking beautiful - almost makes me want to stop my lightening attempts:p

This thread has really been hopping today - even without my research.

wintersun99 is seeing real results with honey lightening for the first time with the 4 parts water (conditioner and water mixed) to 1 part honey with a cinnamon booster on henndigoed hair. The conditioner - a bit heavy but even with it - the results are there and look good.

Mellie's Mix has no peroxide booster in it - it still works on layers of Rainbow Dark Brown Henna beautifully. It always had the 4 to 1 dilution - in this case 1 cup of water with herbs added (1 tablespoon of mullein and 1 tablespoon of Roman chamomile (Anthemis nobilis) to 1/4 cup of honey.

~Sigh~ I'm so jealous, I really wish I could get results like wintersun99 and mellie! I've been doing it occasionally still, but no luck. Congrats girls!

DolphinPrincess

Are you doing 4 parts water or a combo or tea to 1 part honey?

Yep, I've been using the Herbal Essences Hello Hydration. I think I'll try doing half that and half water, still in the 4:1 ratio, just to see if it works better. :shrug: I think I may just end up letting it grow out on its own and henna my roots as it goes, but I'm not giving up yet.

DopphinPrincess

I was just double checking bizarrogirl's recipe - she used 50% water 50% V05 Kiwi Lime to 1 part honey with cinnamon - I think that the combo may be a better way to go or even straight water or tea.

The honey should make it sticky enough to hold cardamom if you are not as sensitive to it as you are to cinnamon which I do not recommend for you after what happened with your skin reaction - you could also do a 75:25 - 75% water 25% conditioner to 1 part honey with a bit of EVOO added.

The 4 to 1 dilution is 4 parts water to 1 part honey - I will be adjusting liquid options based on reported results.

If conditioner is not going to be as effective in 4 parts or 2 parts conditioner to 2 parts water and 1 part honey - I will adjust my recommendations accordingly.

Yes, I did understand about the 4 parts water-based whatever to 1 part honey. :D I think I'll try half water, half condish and see how that works for me. I just uploaded a new picture for my signature, I just took it today. It just looks pure black. At least its healthy! :)

DolphinPrincess

Your hair is beautiful - it has always looked healthy.

I am glad that you understand the dilution - I was not making it clear there for a while.

DolphinPrincess

I'm curious, how many layers of indigo do you have on your hair? mine has many applications of henna, but only one application of henna+indigo (applied in two-step method) which is how I ended up going too dark... I'm wondering if you have more applications on your hair and thus, are having a much more difficult time dislodging the indgo (mind you, I'm not having the easiest time with only one app...) :)

Thanks Ktani!

Wintersun - I had two layers of henna/indigo mixed, then three layers of two-step henna/indigo. I had decided to stop because I wasn't getting it as dark as I wanted, and now I can't get it to lighten, go figure!

I now keep an index of posts.

bizarrogirl's first recipe - 1/4 cup honey, 1/4 cup V05 Kiwi Lime Conditioner, 6 tblsp cinnamon.
Results on 2 henndigoes with multiple henna layers underneath - 8 hours
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bizarrogirl/2397912505/in/set-72157594199905645/

2nd recipe - 1/4 cup honey, 4 tblsp cinnamon, 1/2 c up water, 1/2 cup V05 Kiwi Lime Conditioner for 1 hour.
This time it lightened the baq henna layers - no burgundy colour.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bizarrogirl/2454335633/in/set-72157594199905645/


More water, less cinnamon, less conditioner, same amount of honey = better results in less time by my calculations.

Oh wow, thats great! I think I'll have to try another mix tomorrow, probably try cardamom.

DolphinPrincess

See if you can get the same V05 conditioner - that may help too.

Theres a very limited selection of V05 condish in my area, but I do have some Suave Vanilla Floral. Do you think that would work?

DolphinPrincess

Give me a minute and I will post both ingredient lists if I can.

Suave Vanilla Floral Conditioner
"Water (Aqua), Cetyl Alcohol, Cetrimonium Chloride, Fragrance (Parfum), Potassium Chloride, Distearyldimonium Chloride, 2 Bromo 2 Nitropropane, 3 Diol, Tocopheryl Acetate (Vitmain E Acetate), Methylchloroisothiazolinone, Methylisothiazolinone, Vanilla Planifolia Extract (Vanilla Planifolia), Prunus Amygdalus Dulcis (Sweet Almond), Orange 4 (CI 15510), Yellow 5 (CI 19140), Orange 4 (CI 15510)"
http://www.drugstore.com/qxp55329_333181_sespider/suave/naturals_vanilla_floral_conditioner.htm

V05 Kiwi Lime Conditioner ETA: I replaced the 2007 ingredient list with one from 2008
"Water; Cetyl Alcohol; Stearyl Alcohol; Stearalkonium Chloride; Rosmarinus Officinalis (Rosemary) Leaf Extract; Cymbopogon Schoenanthus Extract; Actinidia Chinensis (Kiwi) Fruit Extract; Citrus Aurantifolia (Lime) Fruit Extract; Hydrolyzed Collagen; Ergocalciferol (Vitamin D); Steareth-21; Glyceryl Stearate; Benzophenone-4; Corn Oil; Propylene Glycol; Disodium EDTA; DMDM Hydantoin; Fragrance; Blue 1; Yellow 5."
http://courtneyshair.wordpress.com/2008/02/17/vo5-kiwi-lime-clarifying-conditioner/


Yes, IMO, you are not only good to go - it may even be a better choice. Anything with stear in it is stearic acid based and is waxy - there are more waxy type ingredients in the V05 than in the Suave, but after the 3 at the front of the list, the others are in very small quantities.

Ooh, yay! :happydance: I have my fingers crossed!

DolphinPrincess

If you try the ground cardamom, I suggest mixing it well into the recipe before you put the treatment on your hair - the honey and conditioner should help buffer your skin and scalp from any irritation. You can also add a small bit of EVOO to the mix - that may help prevent irritation as well as add an extra peroxide boost.

One part of my hair has a color I don't like:
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh17/ilovelonghair/color2.jpg

So someone on the henna thread suggested a couple of things of which one was the honey treatment.

I would like that part of my hair to become more like this:prefer a tone like this:

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh17/ilovelonghair/colorsample-1.jpg

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh17/ilovelonghair/colorsample3-1.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh17/ilovelonghair/colorsample2.jpg

I now keep an index of posts.

bizarrogirl's first recipe - 1/4 cup honey, 1/4 cup V05 Kiwi Lime Conditioner, 6 tblsp cinnamon.
Results on 2 henndigoes with multiple henna layers underneath - 8 hours
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bizarrogirl/2397912505/in/set-72157594199905645/

2nd recipe - 1/4 cup honey, 4 tblsp cinnamon, 1/2 c up water, 1/2 cup V05 Kiwi Lime Conditioner for 1 hour.
This time it lightened the henna layers - no burgundy colour.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bizarrogirl/2454335633/in/set-72157594199905645/


More water, less cinnamon, less conditioner, same amount of honey = better results in less time by my calculations.

ilovelonghair

I cannot predict what colour that you will get from a honey lightening treatment but have a look at the 2nd recipe here and the results and give it a try if you think that this is a recipe you want to do.

I recommend that the treatment be applied to clean wet hair and covered during the hour that it is on the hair with plastic, a bag or wrap and no external heat or sunlight applied.

DolphinPrincess, I didn't think mine was lightening either, but I decided to take photos, and sure enough you can tell in the photos! I just couldn't tell so much to my eye.

WARNING

Having read a number of net articles on cinnamon lightening, at least one of them suggested to cover the hair with conditioner and then apply the cinnamon so it would stick to the conditioner, as a method of doing the treatment.

Whoever thought up that method obviously did not try it or has skin of iron, IMO.

Cinnamon is an irritant.

People have reported burning, red skin and irritation from cinnamon spills on their skin in this thread and elsewhere.

Thankfully, with aloe vera gel and time - the condition was reported to be temporary - the problem healed with no lasting effects.

Cinnamon has not been reported to be a problem when it is pre-mixed into a recipe.

For a honey cinnamon treatment, please mix the cinnamon into the treatment before applying the recipe to the hair.

The conditioner and honey should help buffer the cinnamon from being as irritating to both scalp and skin.

Ktani,

I left out the squeeze of lemon and also the sun per your recommendation, and covered with plastic and a towel for one hour.

Also, please note that I just added another photo with my hair brushed out, it shows the lightening more I think! :-)

I tried another honey treatment this weekend. Per ktani's recommendations, I left out the lemon and sun in my Mellie's Mix, and left it on for an hour under plastic & a towel. Here are my results:

Before:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=423&pictureid=12148

Mellie's Mix 1st treatment:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=423&pictureid=11349

Mellie's Mix 2nd treatment (and brushed out)
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=423&pictureid=12149http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=423&pictureid=12200

mellie

IMO, an extra picture deserves an encore of the entire set.

This is Mellie's Mix before and after on layers of Rainbow Dark Brown Henna.

1 cup of boiled water with herbs - 1 tablespoon Roman chamomile (Anthemis nobilis), 1 tablespoon mullein to 1/4 cup of alfalfa honey. Fantastic results!

It is the perfect 4 parts water to 1 part honey dilution which mellie had used in creating this recipe, before I found out the reason why the dilution worked so well, through my researching honey.

Note: While both herbs may contribute to the lightening they do not have peroxide values and therefore are not peroxide boosters. The 4 to 1 dilution works in 1 hour because it allows the honey used, to produce its maximum peroxide value in that time.

Results may vary - different honeys produce different amounts of peroxide. This applies to all of the honey lightening treatments.

I did the honey treatment last night but didnt have vo5 on hand so I used burts bees greatfruit.pommigranit oops in retrospect I unintentionaly put vit, c with the mix (Greatfruit?)

I may have not gotten a lot of lightening but my hair is SO soft and shiny I dont care. I'll do it again with the VO5 Thur.

I am getting a camera soon so I will have to post after/in the process pic. when I get it.

While my hair was dark and I wanted to keep it they way I did a honey gloss twice a week:

after I CWC
In a Largeish empty honey jug, 6-1 water to honey mix shake up.
pour over my hair and let sit while I soak in the tub.
right before I get out of the tub I rinse.

It leaves my hair so soft and shiney, my daughter says my hair has never looked better.

I did the honey treatment last night but didnt have vo5 on hand so I used burts bees greatfruit.pommigranit oops in retrospect I unintentionaly put vit, c with the mix (Greatfruit?)

I may have not gotten a lot of lightening but my hair is SO soft and shiny I dont care. I'll do it again with the VO5 Thur.

I am getting a camera soon so I will have to post after/in the process pic. when I get it.

While my hair was dark and I wanted to keep it they way I did a honey gloss twice a week:

after I CWC
In a Largeish empty honey jug, 6-1 water to honey mix shake up.
pour over my hair and let sit while I soak in the tub.
right before I get out of the tub I rinse.

It leaves my hair so soft and shiney, my daughter says my hair has never looked better.

naturechild

Thank you for reporting back with your recipe.

It may not have been just the grapefruit Vitamin C that did not help the treatment work as well as you would have liked.

If you can, please post the ingredient list of the conditioner. Burt's Bees list their ingredients - nice - which conditioner did you use?
http://www.burtsbees.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SubCategoryDisplay?categoryId=10007&subCategoryId=-78&catalogId=10051&storeId=10001&langId=-1

Grapefruit seed extract does contain Vitamin C and so would pomegranate extract IMO, not making either of those conditioners the best choice for a honey lightening treatment, even though at least one of them contains honey. I think that a V05 or a Suave Natural conditioner would be better for lightening purposes.

It could also have been the particular honey that you used.

As to your other recipe, if you did not have that mix on your hair, covered to maintain the moisture level, for at least an hour, it would not have very much of a lightening effect.

I am happy for you that using honey on your hair has resulted in it being so soft and shiny and in good health.

I used the rinse for the conditioning effect only so I was glad I didnt get any lightening.

Now I am trying for the lightening effect. I am at work so I dont have the bottle with me but it was the greatfruit pomigranet(sp?) conditioner.

I used raspberry honey from a local hive. Is one kind better then another? I used to use the generic kind with good effect but like I said I had blonde hair then and it brought out the sparkle.

I used the rinse for the conditioning effect only so I was glad I didnt get any lightening.

Now I am trying for the lightening effect. I am at work so I dont have the bottle with me but it was the greatfruit pomigranet(sp?) conditioner.

I used raspberry honey from a local hive. Is one kind better then another? I used to use the generic kind with good effect but like I said I had blonde hair then and it brought out the sparkle.

naturechild

Please when you can post the ingredients of the conditioner - I do not see a conditioner called grapefruit pomegranate on the Burt's Bees website.

As to the honey? It is impossible to predict which ones will yield more peroxide - if one does not work well, you can try another.

However, from my experience in reading every post in 5 threads, and researching honey, the surprise early on was that the cheapest pasteurized honeys were reported to work just as well as the expensive raw ones - the reason? - the plant souce determines the peroxide level.

Alfalfa honey has worked well for mellie while clover did not.

From my research, dark honey blends were reported to have higher peroxide levels in tests done to determine just that.

I re-read your post and feel like an idiot;


these are the ingrediants to the cond. (i found it on the site like you mentioned, duah)

Featured Ingredient
Grapefruit Oil — Uplifting, cleansing and clearing, this oil is stimulating to the lymphatic system and toning to the skin.

Read more
Ingredients: water, cetrimonium bromide, cetearyl alcohol, sucrose laurate, glycerin, honey, betaine, hydroxypropyltrimonium honey, sclerocarya birrea (marula) seed oil, glucose, citrus grandis (grapefruit) seed extract, citrus aurantium dulcis (orange) peel oil, citrus medica limonum (lemon) peel oil, citrus tangerina (tangerine) peel oil, citrus aurantifolia (lime) oil, zingiber officinale (ginger) root extract, citrus reticulata (tangerine/petitgrain) leaf oil, polysorbate 60, glucose oxidase, lactoperoxidase


It has honey in it too, but do you think the citrus is negating the lightening effect?

should I maybe use some cinn. also? mixed in before I apply of course *see I do read the thread* I will pick up my trusty kiwi VO5 today, but it is raining and I walk uck. what we do for our hair.

naturechild

Most of us do not memorize the exact name of many of the products we use - we are usually to busy for that - so please do not feel bad about getting the names mixed up.

I think that there is probably too much Vitamin C in that conditioner in one form or another to make it the best choice for what you want to do with it.

I briefly researched citus oils - I do not think that they are necessarily the problem but given that you did not get much lightening - I would replace the conditioner or switch to using a tea like chamomile - Roman chamomile preferably but the German can do in a pinch - it is easier to find and is the one on grocery shelves.

If you want to use cinnamon as a booster, I recommend buying a Suave Natural or V05 light conditioner to help buffer the possible cinnamon irritation and mix the cinnamon well into the recipe with the honey before using the treatment.

naturechild

Oddly enough, the V05 Kiwi Lime conditioner probably has some Vitamin C in there too but it did not make a difference in the reported honey lightening treatment results.

And while I repeated myself in my post above - I did see and I do realize that you read this thread carefully. I have missed things the first time round in many posts - as do others.

V05 Kiwi Lime Clarifying Conditioner
"Water; Cetyl Alcohol; Stearyl Alcohol; Stearalkonium Chloride; Rosmarinus Officinalis (Rosemary) Leaf Extract; Cymbopogon Schoenanthus Extract; Actinidia Chinensis (Kiwi) Fruit Extract; Citrus Aurantifolia (Lime) Fruit Extract; Hydrolyzed Collagen; Ergocalciferol (Vitamin D); Steareth-21; Glyceryl Stearate; Benzophenone-4; Corn Oil; Propylene Glycol; Disodium EDTA; DMDM Hydantoin; Fragrance; Blue 1; Yellow 5."
http://courtneyshair.wordpress.com/2...g-conditioner/ (http://courtneyshair.wordpress.com/2008/02/17/vo5-kiwi-lime-clarifying-conditioner/)


I think that it might be your honey. Trader Joe's squeeze bear honey haunted me in the original Honey thread because it was reported to work so well at the point where raw honey was supposed to be "the answer" - it wasn't - the squeeze bear ruled.


The Suave Vanilla Floral or something similar, has less waxy ingredients and citrus in it.

Anything on an ingredient list following the preservatives at the end of the list has been referred to as the equivalent to "fairy dust" by Paula Begoun - a bit of a strong statement but more or less true IMO - they are not active ingredients.

Suave Vanilla Floral Conditioner
"Water (Aqua), Cetyl Alcohol, Cetrimonium Chloride, Fragrance (Parfum), Potassium Chloride, Distearyldimonium Chloride, 2 Bromo 2 Nitropropane, 3 Diol, Tocopheryl Acetate (Vitmain E Acetate), Methylchloroisothiazolinone, Methylisothiazolinone, Vanilla Planifolia Extract (Vanilla Planifolia), Prunus Amygdalus Dulcis (Sweet Almond), Orange 4 (CI 15510), Yellow 5 (CI 19140), Orange 4 (CI 15510)"
http://www.drugstore.com/qxp55329_333181_sespider/suave/naturals_vanilla_floral_conditioner.htm

I havent eather and do hope the rain breaks so I can go to the store after work. which of the two do you think is the best?

Kiwi VO5
or
Suave vanilla floral?

I do have some chamomille from the Henna store (lizard something) but I dont know if it is
roman or German,but I do have it and dont have to purchase it. So I guess it will be good enough if I decide to go w/o the cinnamon.

I have also read on another thread that it is believed that you must have had light hair to begin with to lighten with honey. I dont see that to be true, do you?

I havent eather and do hope the rain breaks so I can go to the store after work. which of the two do you think is the best?

Kiwi VO5
or
Suave vanilla floral?

I do have some chamomille from the Henna store (lizard something) but I dont know if it is
roman or German,but I do have it and dont have to purchase it. So I guess it will be good enough if I decide to go w/o the cinnamon.

I have also read on another thread that it is believed that you must have had light hair to begin with to lighten with honey. I dont see that to be true, do you?

The V05 has the reported results with pictures to back it up - the Suave, the way I read ingredient labels though untested as yet, may prove to be a better choice.

Look at the reported results on dark hair and henndigoed hair and hennaed hair and naturally black hair - here in this thread - there are reports with pictures including mellie's latest results, that contradict that statement in spades or beyond doubt - as well as the previous reported results on dark hair in the other Honey threads. Everyone is entitled to their opinion - I prefer to go by the evidence reported and I trust the people, pictures and reports presented.

Thanks I will check them all out.

I think I'll pick up the suave vanilla and risk it. I have tried the kiwi and I am always up for a change. Plus my DF likes vanilla *bonus*

naturechild

Sorry if my post sounded defensive.

It makes no sense to me at all to say that you have to have light hair for something to lighten it.

I have read the same thing about chamomile - the point I believe is that the substance - honey in this case - has limited abilities to lighten and that any colour change would not be noticeable on darker hair colours.

Chamomile does not produce peroxide - I do not know its limits - there are probably methods to increase whatever lightening abilites it does have - I do not know what those methods are but there was a report on it in another, now archived thread.

Several people with henndigoed hair were having problems previously with honey lightening, while others did not - the 4 parts water to 1 part honey dilution has been changing that with one exception - Mellie's Mix has always worked for mellie - it has always had that dilution - no one until now knew why it worked.

Prior to the 4 parts water to 1 part honey dilution, honey lightening was still reported to have worked on all hair colours and types of colour - but usually much more gradually and less predictably.

Things have changed recently - the information I found on the dilution and Vitamin C has made a difference.

I had excellent results with honey and wanted to share it with you. I have straight, hip length hair. I have old chemical dye in my ends, and after I stopped chemical color treatments 2 years ago I have done 3 full head henna applications within the last year. My goal was to lighten my hair from ears down because it had gone too dark for my liking because of henna.

Yesterday I did a honey mix as adviced here, 4:1 ratio. I used a light cone free conditioner, a splash of water, about 2 teaspoons of cinnamon and maybe half a teaspoon of EVOO. I had the mix in my hair for one hour. After rinsing with water I did an ACV rinse (one tablespoon of ACV in one liter of water).

Right after my hair had dried I could see the darkest ends, which were really dark brown with a purple tone, had lightened some. The red had lightened too, towards a more orangey tone. But hair hair was really really sticky! Apparently I had a lot of honey residue left in hair but didn't do anything about it cause I was going to do another treatment today.

So, today I did the same kind of mix, had it in hair for one hour. After rinsing with water I washed my hair with some well diluted shampoo.

Today, when I started rinsing, I saw red water coming out of my hair for a few seconds. After my hair had completely dried I could still feel something in my hair. It wasn't quite sticky but felt odd, maybe I was too gentle with the washing and diluted the shampoo too much. Anyway, the darkest parts of my hair had lightened more - the red part was as it was yesterday. That very dark brown I had has turned into medium brown with a red tone.

I am very pleased with the results. My hair feels soft and conditioned, and I bet I could get honey residue out with using more shampoo. And the smell of cinnamon is delicious!

Sceleste

Welcome to LHC.

Thank you so much for sharing your honey lightening recipe and results.

Hip length hair - wonderful!

I am very pleased for you that the recipe lightened your hennaed hair - the 4 parts water to 1 part honey in 1 hour gives you the honey's maximum peroxide value in that time.

The treatment may need to be repeated to get the results desired but from reports so far, in much less time and effort than previous dilutions and recipes.

You boosted the honey peroxide with 2 peroxide boosters - the cinnamon and the EVOO.

Used on their own, both cinnamon and EVOO do not have peroxide values as high as honey can but either one or both used with honey enhance the total recipe peroxide value.

I am also pleased to read that your hair feels so good and is in good condition - no damage has been reported to date with honey lightening - just dry ends.

Honey residue can be tricky - I am sorry that the vinegar rinse alone did not resolve it.

I suggest an undiluted shampoo next time - you have to deal with the EVOO too - which can be difficult to wash out of the hair, depending on the amount used - and you did not use too much from what you said.

ktani,

As you know, I've gone from very very dark brown/nearly black henndigo to the color in my siggie (indoor lighting) after quite a few honey treatments. I've tried it a number of different ways but have found I got the most lightening with high-fact coconut milk and cinnamon.

Right now I have a 1:4 dilution on my head--honey to 1/2 conditioner-1/2 water, plus a little less than 3 tbsp cinnamon. (I ran out of cinnamon.)

The conditioner is White Rain Water Blossom.

I haven't been wetting down my hair beforehand. This time, I let the mix sit about 10 minutes before applying it, and I also sprayed my hair thoroughly with a mister.

I'll let you know what happens!

GlennaGirl

Thank you for posting the recipe.

Your hair is a lot light than before you started honey lightening.

I look forward to your new results.

Keep your hair covered - you should only need to keep the treatment on for 1 hour this time.

Coconut oil has been reported to be just as effective in honey lightening as coconut cream and I now recommend that it can be used in its place - it is easier to access for many people.

Thanks, ktani. I'm really happy that my hair is lightening. Or, getting lighter. (It's not made of lightening! Now THAT would be bright.)

I'll keep ya posted...I really appreciate all the work you've done. I know I've said that before but it bears repeating. I think you have saved a lot of people a lot of heartbreak with bleaching, salons and breakage by finding this alternative!

I think I'm going to make a concerted effort to find some coconut oil.

GlennaGirl

You are most welcome.

I have really enjoyed doing the research and the fact that people posting here get so creative with recipes.

I also get excited and pleased to see the reports of results people get when the recipes have worked to their expectations and more in some cases, especially lately.

I am very pleased for people who try honey lightening to be able tell them that from all of the reports so far, in the 5 Honey threads, including this one - no damage to the hair has been reported - only as I have said, honey residue dryness.

I wanted to post in here to say thank you to ktani who really knows a great deal about this. Your posts have helped me a lot with my own hair adventures, hahaha. I would always get a bit annoyed by my hair once winter would end because the new hair growing in would be noticeably darker from lack of sun and with honey, I have been able to make it match a lot better and bring out more reds that I had hiding in there.


For the record, here is what I've been using and it has been working.


I've been using old tresseme conditioner that I've been trying to get rid of... I will probably switch to burt's bees when it is used up. About 5 ounces of this. Mixed with about 1 tablespoon of ground cinnamon (just plain store brand cinnamon). Then 2 ounces of trader joe's desert mesquite honey. And a dollop of coconut oil and evoo. I used about 1/4 of this mixture on my head at a time and left it in for anywhere between 1-4 hours at night and then washed it out in the shower. After doing this 5 times, I would say that I've gotten many more red and blonde highlights and the top of my hair has lightened by about 2 shades overall. It still looks very natural, the top is still a bit darker than the bottom (as it should be) and it had no adverse effect on the texture of my hair, I just left it in a high bun when I had the stuff on my head.

flapjack

Thank you so much for the kind words and for posting your recipe and details.

I think that if you try the 4 parts water to 1 part honey dilution - you can still include your conditioner in that especially if you continue to use cinnamon - it will help protect you from irritation IMO - but add water - you will be able, if you continue to do honey lightening, to get better results in only 1 hour and with less treatments.

It sounds as if you are making a batch ahead of time and using it slowly.

It has worked for you to do that but I recommend making a batch of only what you need at the time fresh, and using it right away.

2 shades lighter is wonderful and I am very pleased for you that like all of the other reports - there is no damage reported to your hair.

After reading through this thread I decided to try this the other night. I decided to use the water and honey mix 4:1 ratio as getting the conditioners mentioned in the list I don't think is possible here. Though I have some left over Alberto which is VO5 but as it is discontinued here I can only use it once.
The mixture was literally just like water and I thought hmm how will this work, I put it on as best I could putting 2 shower caps and a towel on losing a lot of the mixture down the sink. I left it on for over an hour and there was no change to my hair colour.
I think I will try using the left over Alberto's with honey next.
As I can't get the conditioners on the list I am assuming it's best to get a cone free conditioner that is more on the runny side. Is that right? We have a Pears brand here which is cone free and I think is like your Suave brand, I also can get a cheap brand cone free at another shop.
I don't fancy the drippy water mixture again.
I put a semi permanent in a couple of weeks ago and the colour wasn't what I thought it was and it's too dark.:rolleyes:

After reading through this thread I decided to try this the other night. I decided to use the water and honey mix 4:1 ratio as getting the conditioners mentioned in the list I don't think is possible here. Though I have some left over Alberto which is VO5 but as it is discontinued here I can only use it once.
The mixture was literally just like water and I thought hmm how will this work, I put it on as best I could putting 2 shower caps and a towel on losing a lot of the mixture down the sink. I left it on for over an hour and there was no change to my hair colour.
I think I will try using the left over Alberto's with honey next.
As I can't get the conditioners on the list I am assuming it's best to get a cone free conditioner that is more on the runny side. Is that right? We have a Pears brand here which is cone free and I think is like your Suave brand, I also can get a cheap brand cone free at another shop.
I don't fancy the drippy water mixture again.
I put a semi permanent in a couple of weeks ago and the colour wasn't what I thought it was and it's too dark.:rolleyes:

Alley Cat

Thank you for posting.

Ok - let's break this down. Your recipe was just fine, IMO.

The problem I think was the method - losing a lot of it down the sink was not good.

When I apply my catnip tea to my freshly washed wet hair in the shower (with excess water squeezed out), I put a little of it in my hand at a time and repeatedly apply it to my hair before covering - but it took practice to get it right.

Mellie's Mix is also a liquid - I do not know mellie's method of application - mellie - please help.

For you it may be better to use conditioner in the mix but I still recommend the 4 parts liquid to 1 part honey and then add some oil - EVOO or coconut - not too much - as an extra peroxide boost or you could try Mellie's Mix - 1 cup of boiled water with herbs - 1 tablespoon of Roman chamomile (Anthemis nobilis), 1 tablespoon of mullein to 1/4 cup of honey - if you cannot get alfalfa honey use a dark coloured blend.

The brand of conditioner is not important - it is the ingredients - some cones are not a problem - IMO it is more about the number and concentration of the waxy ingredients and film formers in a conditioner - you will need a light thin one.

My mix is very much a liquid. I apply it first by brushing it on with a tint brush over the sink. I keep doing this until the hair is very saturated. Then I pour the rest through my hair (over the sink again) and squeeze out any excess.

mellie

What a great idea - cool!

Is this on wet hair with the excess water squeezed out or on dry hair?

Alley Cat

Thank you for posting.

Ok - let's break this down. Your recipe was just fine, IMO.

The problem I think was the method - losing a lot of it down the sink was not good.

When I apply my catnip tea to my freshly washed wet hair in the shower, I put a little of it in my hand at a time and repeatedly apply it to my hair before covering - but it took practice to get it right.

Mellie's Mix is also a liquid - I do not know mellie's method of application - mellie - please help.

For you it may be better to use conditioner in the mix but I still recommend the 4 parts liquid to 1 part honey and then add some oil - EVOO or coconut - not too much - as an extra peroxide boost or you could try Mellie's Mix - 1 cup of boiled water with herbs - 1 tablespoon of Roman chamomile (Anthemis nobilis), 1 tablespoon of mullein to 1/4 cup of honey - if you cannot get alfalfa honey use a dark coloured blend.

The brand of conditioner is not important - it is the ingredients - some cones are not a problem - IMO it is more about the number and concentration of the waxy ingredients and film formers in a conditioner - you will need a light thin one.
Thanks for that. I wonder also if the length of my hair makes it difficult mine is past waist which is always awkward for applying things. I thought about adding something else I do have some cinnamon as posted earlier in the thread , and I have both coconut and of course EVOO. :)

My mix is very much a liquid. I apply it first by brushing it on with a tint brush over the sink. I keep doing this until the hair is very saturated. Then I pour the rest through my hair (over the sink again) and squeeze out any excess.
I did try a bit with a tint brush but it felt like it was taking forever so I put my length straight in the bowl and then added the rest as best I could . But I still felt a lot was being wasted and it was difficult to keep that on my head for that time as I needed a towel over the shower caps and it wasn't comfortable. :shrug:

I did the mix last night:

4-1 the 4 being camomile tea with mullin leaf and about 3 tbs of cinnamon

It was a pretty watery mix that I rinsed through my hair (pour over my head, catching it in a large bowl and repeating untill most all was in my hair) I wrapped in in plastic and then a towel and worked around the house for an hour. I washed my hair as usual, CWC.

I had nice lightening, my red tones are becomeing sorta strawberry-ish and gold tones are (starting) to appear. I have a long way to go but I see progress!! after 3 times.

I will deffenetly keep this up.
Plus it makes my DF laugh when he see's me in the towel walking around the yard.

Ktani: I didnt even notice the tone, we all love ya girl, you are our "honey"

Oh I forgot to mention it was rinsed through dry hair.
;)

Alley Cat

For me, it is easier to work with my hair all forward - sometimes referred to here as upside down - I can grab everything and not have to reach behind me or strain myself, lol.

If you decide to try cinnamon, I definitely suggest using conditioner in the mix and blending the cinnamon in with the honey, conditioner and a bit of oil before you apply the mixture.

Cinnamon is an irritant.

However, in a 4 parts water (liquid) to 1 part honey dilution, you can use less cinnamon that you otherwise might need and when blended well into the recipe, there have not been any reports on cinnamon irritation - the blending buffers the scalp and skin from that, IMO.

ktani asked:
Is this on wet hair with the excess water squeezed out or on dry hair?

Yes, that's right.

alleycat said:
I did try a bit with a tint brush but it felt like it was taking forever so I put my length straight in the bowl and then added the rest as best I could . But I still felt a lot was being wasted and it was difficult to keep that on my head for that time as I needed a towel over the shower caps and it wasn't comfortable.

Up until recently, I did my honey treatments outside in low sun, and I carried my cup & tint brush out with me. I left my hair uncovered, and from time to time throughout the hour, would reapply.

This last time I tried it as ktani recommended, and placed a plastic bag over covered by a towel.

My mix is very much a liquid. I apply it first by brushing it on with a tint brush over the sink. I keep doing this until the hair is very saturated. Then I pour the rest through my hair (over the sink again) and squeeze out any excess.

naturechild

I must admit, that I never considered the problems that might occur with the 4 parts water or liquid to 1 part honey in terms of the method of application.

I think that mellie's method is the best in terms of ensuring a more even distibution of the more liquid recipes.

Thank you for your kind words on that post and your affection. I love you all too.

I think that your previous honey lightening attempts will be eclipsed by this new method and the new recipes.

Since you did not mention it - I am guessing that the cinnamon did not irritat